[F3A-Discussion] FW: Judging Proposal

Tue Mar 6 14:59:08 AKST 2018

Hi Jon,

Thank you for the feedback!  Judge quality is always an issue and needs to be addressed.

The proposal at hand is to address a larger problem in addressing the costs of hosting a WC especially outside of Europe.  If this is not addressed the WC will become a European only affair.  Several European members of the committee don’t see an issue with cost - obviously, and seem to think that a change isn’t needed.

C’est la vie...

Derek

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From: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:21:09 AM
To: Derek Koopowitz; f3a-discussion at lists.f3a.us
Subject: Re: [F3A-Discussion] FW: Judging Proposal

I am in Orlando, and I had a chance today to see Jason Shulman, Will Gross from Canada, and Dave Stoddart, Jason's caller.  This proposal came up briefly, but the main discussion quickly turned to  judge quality, not cost.

Some suggestions:

Make judges pay part of their own way (airfare?), so they are invested, and it may weed out those only there for the free trip. Will ensure judges actually want to do the job.

Require that countries nominate judges who are active pattern flyers, so they know what they are looking at and what to look for. Dave told me that 3 and 4 demo flights were sometimes necessary to get judges up to speed. Some judges hadn't flown in competition in years.

Get rid of judges who doze off. Apparently way too many "not observed" scores at the 2017 WC.

I hate to argue with Earl, but i don't think the entry fees are insignificant for the teams. Many thousands of dollars as I recall for the team. It is getting harder to find countries who want to take on putting on a WC because of cost. Maybe our illustrious Team Manager will pipe up.

FWIW

Jon

On Mar 6, 2018 5:25 PM, Derek Koopowitz via F3A-Discussion <f3a-discussion at lists.f3a.us> wrote:
Hi Earl,

Thanks for the feedback!  I do agree with having the finals be 1 F and 2 unknowns.  I had proposed last year 16 judges but that failed because it meant no TBL in the prelims, which I think is ok because I seriously doubt it would impact the quality of pilots in the semi finals.  That was Pooh-poohed again this year by Harry and the sub committee chair.

Some other suggestions from other countries were to allow more pilots from each country to fly and using video for the finals to review zeros.  Not too many in favor of zero judges but I do agree that 3 zero judges would be best.  One person even suggested using contestant zero judges - that went over like a lead ballon.

Regards,
Derek

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From: Earl Haury <ejhaury at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 9:11:47 AM
To: Derek Koopowitz; f3a-discussion at lists.f3a.us
Subject: Re: [F3A-Discussion] FW: Judging Proposal

Derek

No offense to Harry’s work, but here’s my view:

1st: Lower entry fees and make event more cost effective for organizers – really shouldn’t matter what the entry fees are, Individuals / teams spend a fortune on airplanes, travel, transportation, lodging, etc., entry fees are a small part – raise them if necessary to keep the organizer solvent and put on a first class event.

2nd: Most won’t get past the prelims for the same costs and need to be treated fairly – doesn’t seem like cutting the number of maneuvers and time they fly is fair, less bang for their buck.

3rd: Judge work load should be reasonable – agree, using 10 judges is very marginal, maybe if entry is very low (<60?). Maybe use 15 for medium entry level (60-80), 20 above.

4th: Reduce number of finals flights - there’s merit in reducing the finals to 3 flights, 3 unknowns is too much though (would put more emphasis on semi’s and F sequence if semi score carried in to finals). When using center/end judges the end judges should score both ends.

5th: Zero judges - should be mandatory for unknowns and at a WC and it really should be 3 with 2 agreements to zero – maybe put a couple of jury members to work?

Earl

From: Derek Koopowitz via F3A-Discussion
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 6:10 PM
To: f3a-discussion at lists.f3a.us
Subject: [F3A-Discussion] FW: Judging Proposal

Hi everyone,

Harry Ells from Canada has put together a proposal that will reduce the cost of hosting a WC and also reduce the cost of entry fees.  Below is Harry’s text and questions he has about the proposal.  Please let me know your opinion on this proposal.  I’m not in favor of this at all – this is a drastic change which will impact attendance and quality of the event.

I have spent much time trying to come up with a Judging system that will save a significant cost in the operation of a F3A World Championships.

The goal would be to lower cost in running a World Championships and lower the entry fees.

I have looked at many scenarios that I can not see working. The one attached is the only one that I think will work.

I realize that it may be looked at as very radical, but I hope that you will look at it with an open mind. The proposal has what I feel are the least amount of changes.

Unless there are amendments  I will propose the following 4 Questions.

Item # 1-Are you in favour of the proposal?

Item # 2-Are you in favour of 3 Unknowns in the final?

Item # 3-Are you in favour of 1 F and 2 Unknowns in the final?

Item # 4-Are you in favour of counting all 3 rounds in final?

Regards

Harry

Best regards,

-Derek

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