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<title>FW: WG: [ciam-f3a] Schedule Proposals F-13/15</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think it is very refreshing to see some
criteria to which the P schedules are to be designed, and hopefully this
thought process will carry over into the F schedules as well (and it appears
this way, for this cycle anyway), so we never again see 9 snap rolls in the
same pattern.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Last weekend, I gave a brief look at each
of the 13/15 schedules, and basically flew them as unknowns. Each schedule was
about 6:00 box entry to box exit – similar to the 11 schedules, and about
the right time, my opinion. All are pretty good overall, but I think some
improvements could be made, mostly the P-13. If any of my comments are
unclear, please let me know. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While I did not do a detailed proofread, I
would note there are still some grammatical/typos that need to be fixed, such
as the Titles on the Arestis, which say “Preliminary Schedule F-………”
and the text description for F-15.16 should have the last radius as a push, and
not a pull. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Should have warm weather this weekend, so
maybe some more flying on these schedules.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-13<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P13.07 – 45 Upline with 1.5 snap.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Not a problem, but I really think this
maneuver presents better going upwind.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-13.09 – Spin with 2.5 turns, 2.5
turns in opposite direction.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This means the spin reversal is going to
happen DOWNWIND!!! Not a good idea, and IF the airplane actually remains
STALLED during the reversal, it will not present well. This is a big mistake,
and should be changed to 2.25 turns reversed, or 2 turns reversed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Between P-13.11 and P-13.12, there is very
little room for a straight line if the Cuban is flown large (and it will
present best large, with the integrated rolling components) and the following ½
loop is flown large (and it should be, considering maneuver 13 is a Square Loop
with 4 half rolls).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-13.14 Figure 9.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Why are we starting a Figure 9 at top of
the box?? Not the best turnaround selection following a tall center maneuver.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-13.15 Roll Combination.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This is medium length rolling maneuver
being done downwind. I like the maneuver itself, but the combination of
P-13.14, P-13.15, and P-13.16 is not the best as the turnarounds require
substantial box, cutting short the amount of room for the rolling maneuver.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-15<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-15.07 – 1/6 rolls x3, reversed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ok…I guess. Do we really need a 1/6
rolling element?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-15.14 – ½ Square <st1:place w:st="on">Loop</st1:place>
on Corner w/ ½ rolls<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This will be pretty cramped and rushed,
considering the complexity of the maneuver, and the entry height is mid-box.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>P-15.15 – 45 Upline with 2 rolls
reversed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maneuver itself is fine, but the
combination of P-15.14, P-15.15, and P-15.16 is not the best as the turnarounds
require substantial box, cutting short the amount of room (horizontal and
vertical) for the 45 Upline.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F-13<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F-13.07 – Roll Combination, ¼ roll w/
reversed snaps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Interesting maneuver. Maneuver will have
to be kept short to avoid a pinch spot into the following Shark Fin turnaround (F-13.08)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F-15<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F-15.07 - Horizontal Triangle Circle.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Interesting maneuver. Will be very
difficult to judge the shape. I’d prefer to see this done in the
vertical plane, as it would be easier to judge, and require less overflight
area at airfields.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F-15.14 - ½ 6 sided loop.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This will be pretty cramped and rushed,
considering the complexity of the maneuver, and the entry height is mid-box.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F-15.15 – 4 Rolls reversed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>LONG maneuver. Should be a challenge.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us
[mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 04, 2010
1:18 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [F3A-Discussion] Schedule
Proposals F-13/15</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>More information
about F13…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
I think F-13 Arestis look good now, just in F13.05 the arrow for the first roll
may point downwards instead of upwards.<br>
<br>
As for the manoeuvre description, may be it would be better to say:<br>
<br>
“From upright, perform a ¼ horizontal circle while performing the first ¼
of two rolls, then while continuing the rolling (¼ of the rolls per ¼ of the
circles), perform immediately another (full) circle in the opposite direction,
then while continuing the rolling accordingly finish the remaining ¾ of the
first circle, exit upright. The rolling direction is to the outside of the
first 1/4 circle.”<br>
<br>
Ken, thank you very much for your initiative and the pilots efforts to test fly
the P-13 and P-15 proposals. <br>
To make up your meanings, please compare these proposals with the P-Schedule
design criterias as per my Circular September 2009/1:<br>
<br>
Characteristics:<br>
- Basic schedules for every F3A-pilot all over
the world.<br>
- Determined for local, national, and
international contests and as prelimenary schedules for FAI contests and
competitions.<br>
<br>
Criterias:<br>
- <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Manoeuvres
technically not too difficult, emphasis on geometrical accuracy and
positioning.<br>
</span></b>- Manoeuvre no. 1 with basic elements
to show preferred manoeuvre size and smoothness, K<=4.<br>
- Complex manoeuvres (K=5) earliest as manoeuvre
no. 3.<br>
- Manoevres to contain all basic elements, and
rolls in changing directions, integrated rolls and knife-edges only starting
from low to high.<br>
- Cross-box manoeuvres have to be combined with
corresponding manoeuvres for eventual compensation of distance variations,
mainly in cross wind situations.<br>
- Just one snap-roll (in horizontal or up
direction) per schedule and only in center manoeuvres.<br>
- Maximum 3 manoeuvres K=5 (total K=60). <br>
- Harmonic architecture of manoeuvre sequences
with respect to best possible judgeability.<br>
<br>
Please also keep in mind that we are still on a discussion/proposal level. Any
modifications, changes, manoeuvers to replace with other ones you may have in
mind should be forwarded to the Subcommittee now, because, as already
announced, I’d like to make a Subcommittee vote on the P-13 and P-15
Schedule proposals by the end of March 2009 to make them firm.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to your questions...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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