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<title>FW: WG: [ciam-f3a] Schedule Proposals F-13/15</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the feedback, Dave. I’ve sent this on to the CIAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us
[mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [F3A-Discussion] Schedule Proposals F-13/15<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I think it is very refreshing to see some criteria to which the P
schedules are to be designed, and hopefully this thought process will carry
over into the F schedules as well (and it appears this way, for this cycle
anyway), so we never again see 9 snap rolls in the same pattern.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Last weekend, I gave a brief look at each of the 13/15 schedules,
and basically flew them as unknowns. Each schedule was about 6:00 box
entry to box exit – similar to the 11 schedules, and about the right time, my
opinion. All are pretty good overall, but I think some improvements could
be made, mostly the P-13. If any of my comments are unclear, please let
me know. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>While I did not do a detailed proofread, I would note there are
still some grammatical/typos that need to be fixed, such as the Titles on the
Arestis, which say “Preliminary Schedule F-………” and the text description for
F-15.16 should have the last radius as a push, and not a pull. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Should have warm weather this weekend, so maybe some more flying on
these schedules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P13.07 – 45 Upline with 1.5 snap.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Not a problem, but I really think this maneuver presents better
going upwind.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-13.09 – Spin with 2.5 turns, 2.5 turns in opposite direction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>This means the spin reversal is going to happen DOWNWIND!!!
Not a good idea, and IF the airplane actually remains STALLED during the
reversal, it will not present well. This is a big mistake, and should be
changed to 2.25 turns reversed, or 2 turns reversed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Between P-13.11 and P-13.12, there is very little room for a
straight line if the Cuban is flown large (and it will present best large, with
the integrated rolling components) and the following ½ loop is flown large (and
it should be, considering maneuver 13 is a Square Loop with 4 half rolls).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-13.14 Figure 9.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Why are we starting a Figure 9 at top of the box?? Not the
best turnaround selection following a tall center maneuver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-13.15 Roll Combination.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>This is medium length rolling maneuver being done downwind. I
like the maneuver itself, but the combination of P-13.14, P-13.15, and P-13.16
is not the best as the turnarounds require substantial box, cutting short the
amount of room for the rolling maneuver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-15<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-15.07 – 1/6 rolls x3, reversed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Ok…I guess. Do we really need a 1/6 rolling element?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-15.14 – ½ Square Loop on Corner w/ ½ rolls<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>This will be pretty cramped and rushed, considering the complexity
of the maneuver, and the entry height is mid-box.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>P-15.15 – 45 Upline with 2 rolls reversed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Maneuver itself is fine, but the combination of P-15.14, P-15.15,
and P-15.16 is not the best as the turnarounds require substantial box, cutting
short the amount of room (horizontal and vertical) for the 45 Upline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F-13.07 – Roll Combination, ¼ roll w/ reversed snaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Interesting maneuver. Maneuver will have to be kept short to
avoid a pinch spot into the following Shark Fin turnaround (F-13.08)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F-15<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F-15.07 - Horizontal Triangle Circle.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Interesting maneuver. Will be very difficult to judge the
shape. I’d prefer to see this done in the vertical plane, as it would be
easier to judge, and require less overflight area at airfields.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F-15.14 - ½ 6 sided loop.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>This will be pretty cramped and rushed, considering the complexity
of the maneuver, and the entry height is mid-box.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F-15.15 – 4 Rolls reversed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>LONG maneuver. Should be a challenge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us [mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 04, 2010 1:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [F3A-Discussion] Schedule Proposals F-13/15</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>More information about F13…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
I think F-13 Arestis look good now, just in F13.05 the arrow for the first roll
may point downwards instead of upwards.<br>
<br>
As for the manoeuvre description, may be it would be better to say:<br>
<br>
“From upright, perform a ¼ horizontal circle while performing the first ¼ of
two rolls, then while continuing the rolling (¼ of the rolls per ¼ of the
circles), perform immediately another (full) circle in the opposite direction,
then while continuing the rolling accordingly finish the remaining ¾ of the
first circle, exit upright. The rolling direction is to the outside of the
first 1/4 circle.”<br>
<br>
Ken, thank you very much for your initiative and the pilots efforts to test fly
the P-13 and P-15 proposals. <br>
To make up your meanings, please compare these proposals with the P-Schedule
design criterias as per my Circular September 2009/1:<br>
<br>
Characteristics:<br>
- Basic schedules for every F3A-pilot all over
the world.<br>
- Determined for local, national, and
international contests and as prelimenary schedules for FAI contests and
competitions.<br>
<br>
Criterias:<br>
- <b>Manoeuvres technically not too difficult,
emphasis on geometrical accuracy and positioning.<br>
</b>- Manoeuvre no. 1 with basic elements to show
preferred manoeuvre size and smoothness, K<=4.<br>
- Complex manoeuvres (K=5) earliest as manoeuvre
no. 3.<br>
- Manoevres to contain all basic elements, and
rolls in changing directions, integrated rolls and knife-edges only starting
from low to high.<br>
- Cross-box manoeuvres have to be combined with
corresponding manoeuvres for eventual compensation of distance variations,
mainly in cross wind situations.<br>
- Just one snap-roll (in horizontal or up
direction) per schedule and only in center manoeuvres.<br>
- Maximum 3 manoeuvres K=5 (total K=60). <br>
- Harmonic architecture of manoeuvre sequences
with respect to best possible judgeability.<br>
<br>
Please also keep in mind that we are still on a discussion/proposal level. Any
modifications, changes, manoeuvers to replace with other ones you may have in
mind should be forwarded to the Subcommittee now, because, as already
announced, I’d like to make a Subcommittee vote on the P-13 and P-15 Schedule
proposals by the end of March 2009 to make them firm.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to your questions...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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