Calling Maneuvers for Judges

[Tony Stillman]

Jon:

I really don't think that will happen ANYWHERE!  The CD's job is to enforce
the rule book with only changes that have been advertised ahead of time.
Every pilot has the RIGHT to expect the event to be flown by the book with
the only deviations being those that are advertised in the flier and on the
AMA Sanction form.

Most times, what happens is a pilot/caller comes up to fly, a judge MIGHT
ask "if you don't mind, please call the maneuvers loud enough for me to
hear, please".

That's all that is said.  I have never heard a pilot/caller say no, but I
have also had them not call loud either.  No one gets bent out of shape, and
the judge just does the best they can, usually with no problems at all.

Don't get discouraged about this discussion.  After all, it IS just
discussion!!


Tony Stillman
Radio South
3702 N. Pace Blvd.
Pensacola, FL 32505
1-800-962-7802
www.radiosouthrc.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Uhler" <juhler at bellsouth.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges


> Guys,
>
> As a newbie this type of discussion is very discouraging.  I've been
flying since 1978, sport type flying with no real direction.  I got into
pattern so I can add purpose to my flying, and so I can learn.  I thought
the whole reason for flying pattern was to compete against pilots.  I also
thought the AMA made rules so people would know what they are getting into
when they go to a contest.  Now I understand that certain fields/hosting
clubs may have rules that a person would need to adhere to while flying in a
contest at that location.  However, the basic contest rules should be the
same from event to event.  As a rookie pattern pilot I have enough to worry
about with the schedules and learning to compete in front of people.  I'd
hate to think I need to lump in different rules for different contests.  I'd
also hate to think that I could get downgraded cause of a caller error.  In
these times of low pattern attendance I would think we would want to make
things more uniform and easier on the pilots, not more di
> Just the thoughts of a newbie pattern pilot with one contest under his
belt.
>
> Jon Uhler
> >
> > From: "Gray E Fowler" <gfowler at raytheon.com>
> > Date: 2003/06/12 Thu PM 12:27:13 EDT
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > I was the one flying when this happened. When I heard the judge say "
> > isn't he supposed to be inverted" both myself and my caller Lance said
> > "no" in unison. During the flight I think two more judge "questions"
arose
> > where upon I almost missed a downwind centered maneuver because my
caller
> > was again straightening out judge confusion. Frankly I felt like
landing.
> > I really do not know how this could have been fixed after the fact
unless
> > I re-flew the entire pattern.  Considering that I am a very bad Advanced
> > guy I am no where near winning anything  so it did not matter. To
> > alleviate this problem on the next rounds both myself and Lance started
> > calling out the entire  maneuver loud enough for the judges to know that
> > there is both a stall turn with and without half rolls and when I was
> > supposed to be inverted.
> > These judges were club guys who got the intense training session prior
to
> > the contest. They were trying their best to do it right, and were just
> > confused-no reason to get mad. What I think this underscores the most is
> > that we as Pattern dudes are by far the most qualified to judge
ourselves,
> > yet no one wants to judge- or it appears no one wants to judge at the
> > contests, yet we are willing to let the local sport flyers give us all 8
> > ,9 and 10's no matter how bad it is, not know when to zero, look down
> > during the maneuver, etc.
> > Here's a vote for contestant judging!
> >
> > By the way on that same flight.....When Lance was dealing with the
judges
> > I "thought" the next maneuver was the triangle so I pulled up at center
to
> > 45 degrees, the got the proper maneuver, leveled out and proceeded with
a
> > quick slow roll that missed center by 2.2 counties, one judge gave me a
6
> > the other an 8, which should have been a 0. Now there is an argument
that
> > I should have this stupid pattern memorized for my own benefit.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gray Fowler
> > Principal Chemical Engineer
> > Composites Engineering
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Tony Stillman" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
> > Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > 06/12/2003 09:18 AM
> > Please respond to discussion
> >
> >
> >         To:     <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >         cc:
> >         Subject:        Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> >
> >
> > Keith:
> >
> > I wouldn't say anything during the flight.  Take it to the cheif judge
or
> > CD
> > after the flight and let  them get it straightened out.
> >
> > Tony Stillman
> > Radio South
> > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > Pensacola, FL 32505
> > 1-800-962-7802
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Keith Black" <tkeithb at attbi.com>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> >
> >
> > > How about when you hear the judge say something like "isn't he
supposed
> > to
> > > be inverted", and you're not. This happen to one of the pilots two or
> > three
> > > times in the *same* flight at one contest I attended. Obviously that's
> > very
> > > distracting to the pilot and caller.
> > >
> > > Question, if you hear this from the judges should you respond
verbally?
> > > Seems like this level of confusion would totally blow the whole
flight.
> > What
> > > would be the proper protocol for the pilot during and after the flight
> > if
> > > something like this occurs?
> > >
> > > Keith Black
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ron Lockhart" <ronlock at comcast.net>
> > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> > >
> > >
> > > > Adding the function of calling in a manner suitable
> > > > for judging can be a distraction from 'Caller for Pilot'
> > > > duties.  It's not desirable, but the realities of
> > > > contest manpower sometimes require it.
> > > >
> > > > Even more distracting is (have you been there as a
> > > > pilot or caller?) hearing a scribe call maneuvers
> > > > late or early...and ya hope the judge isn't
> > > > listening. <VBG>
> > > >
> > > > Ron Lockhart
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: WHIP23 at aol.com
> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:29 am
> > > > Subject: Re: Wrong Maneuver issues
> > > >
> > > > > In a message dated 6/11/03 8:12:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > > > Patternrules at aol.com writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally I like it when the caller calls the maneuvers loud
> > > > > enough for the
> > > > > > judges to hear, then I don't need a scribe just a blank paper,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > transcribe the # after the flight.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve Maxwell
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree, with the caller calling the maneuvers loud enough for the
> > > > > judges to
> > > > > hear, but I have found that there is a lot of resistance to this
> > > > > proceedure.
> > > > > I've always viewed presenting the sequence such that the judges
> > > > > could judge
> > > > > it, easily and correctly as part of the "job" and the caller can
> > > > > contribute to
> > > > > that to a large degree, by calling the maneuvers such that there
> > > > > is no
> > > > > confusion.  I will also point out that I have nearly been lynched
> > > > > for this position,
> > > > > on occasion :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > This otta' get some action going on the list (flame suit on, bring
> > it)
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====================================
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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