[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

Thu Mar 1 12:08:20 AKST 2007

Dean,
I can only get into the list this way/  I want to sell:
Hacker C50 14XL
Jeti Master 77-0-Flight esc
Budd motor mount.

All Nib.
Thanks
Mike

Also, my sim is working.  It simply required pushing plug really hard to 
completely connect.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

> Just agreeing with you whole-heartedly.
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> jonlowe at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:52 PM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
>
> Ok, I give, Harrumph what???!!!  Or are you just quoting Blazing
> Saddles?
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: d.pappas at kodeos.com
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Sent: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
> Harrumph!
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> jonlowe at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:36 AM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
>
> I take the apporach that if I can't see an element clearly, it must not
> be there.  If I find myself asking "do I give him the benefit of the
> doubt?", I downgrade.
>
> I saw some FIA pilots doing loops with integrated 4 points last year,
> in which I couldn't see distinct points (I saw them slow down, but not
> stop rolling), and downgraded severely because of it.  A couple asked
> me about it.  I said, that if I can't see a distinct point, it must not
> be there.  They fixed it in subsequent flights.
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: d.pappas at kodeos.com
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Sent: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
> Hi Fred,
> There is another whole aspect to the judging world!
> We always discuss WHAT to judge ... and we should.
>
> HOW to judge gets stickier, and I have seen, over the years, a handful
> of pilots score
> remarkably well by utilizing flying styles that rush both maneuver
> elements and the judges.
>
> We always tend to blame ourselves if we can't see what is supposed to
> be there, rather than blaming others.
> That is civilized behavior: people who start out by assuming the
> opposite are called sociopaths.
> Well, a good judge is maybe just a little bit sociopathic. (temporary
> insanity?)
> Let me go back to Matt K.'s statement of two or so days ago, when he
> said that the onus is on the pilot to clearly demonstrate the good
> stuff to the judge,
> and not on the judge to pick out the good stuff in the midst of a poor
> presentation.
> You won't find this explicitly in any rule book, but common sense tells
> us that a real workman
> proudly displays his good work so that it can best be admired, rather
> than hiding it in the middle of confusion.
> If you were judging a debate, would you have to give someone the
> benefit of the doubt because they mumbled? Heck NO!
> The mumbler gets downgraded.
> Rushing is like mumbling ...come to think of it it isn't like mumbling,
> it is aero-mumbling.
>
> Off my soapbox,
> Dean
>
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Fred Huber
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:46 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
>
> I caught all kinds of flack at judging training session for
> downgrading because a VERY well known pilit did a blazing fast
> 4-point....
>
> All other judge trainees said 10... I said 0... the points weren't full
> stops.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gene Maurice
> To: randy10926 at comtekmail.com ; 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 1:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
>
> If the points are so fast as to make it indiscernible what angle they
> occurred at, then I would tend to doubt whether the point occurred at
> all. Score 0. It is the pilot’s responsibility to present the maneuver
> in such a manner to demonstrate that the maneuver has in fact been done
> according to the rules. I sincerely doubt that a 4 point can be done in
> 1.25 seconds with defined stops in the roll every 90 degrees. But it
> remains that if, as a judge, you cannot clearly see the relevant
> elements of any maneuver being performed, then you should assume that
> IT HAS NOT been performed. The elements must be demonstrated not
> assumed.
>
>
>
> Don Ramsey, can you clarify?
>
>
>
> Gene Maurice
> gene.maurice at sgmservice.com
> Plano, TX
> AMA 3408, NSRCA 877
>
>
> --------
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Glenn
> Hatfield
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:24 AM
> To: nsrca-discuss list
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
>
>
>
> Ok time to get back to our favorite list questions.
>
> This comes from a real life judging problem. The question is about the
> 4-point roll. This what I am seeing. A 4 point roll that takes less
> than 1.25 second to complete. You can see 4 very short pauses. The
> manever appears to be centered. I see no change in height or coming in
> or out. It appears to be between 150M and 175M. But the pauses are so
> short that I cannot really tell if the rolls between pauses are 90
> degrees. So I cannot see what the 1 point per 15 degree down grade
> should be.
>
>
> What would you do?
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>
> --------
>
>
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