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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Larry, as I said I haven't formed an opinion on
this topic yet, but I'm reading with great interest the various points of view.
I'm quite logical, therefore solid arguments backed up with facts are what sway
me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your reply to "recruiting new members, growing
pattern" almost seems to be an argument against a weight limit. As you point out
IMAC is quite successful in drawing large numbers even though their planes are
outrageous in both size and price. This suggests that price is not necessarily a
limiting factor. However, assuming that price were really a limiting factor we
should be able to reduce prices by not having to use such high tech materials to
keep the weights down. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You also make a point that the weight limit has
advanced designs and technology by forcing us to use the latest high tech
materials and technology. This is probably true and I personally am a big fan of
advances in new technology, yet with high tech materials comes higher costs.
This seems opposed to the point that we should keep costs down because
costs could be affecting local participation. Therefore I think your two points
contradict each other. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For the record, I absolutely don't want to see the
price of pattern planes skyrocket or see the planes increase in size. One thing
that appeals to me about pattern over IMAC is that I can have a top notch plane
that is competitive on any level for around $1500 to $2000 and I don't have to
buy a trailer to haul a 40% bird. In IMAC they're continually building them
bigger and bigger, and one has to follow suite to be competitive. With our size
limitations at least we don't always have to play catch-up on size with our
competitors. We do of course have to play catch-up on design but that's the
nature of any competition where equipment is a major component.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know that changes often have unintended
consequences. The question is will lifting the weight limitation cause an
explosion in price or simply provide more economical and technically appealing
options as others have suggested. Some will point out that the lifting of the
engine restrictions caused undesired consequences, this is true but I for one
think the pattern ships today are far more appealing and the sequences are much
more interesting than those flown with the smaller zippy .60 size planes.
Personally I think if it weren't for these changes you'd see even less
participation in pattern and more of a movement to IMAC.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Still listening and waiting to be convinced
;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jed241@email.msn.com href="mailto:jed241@email.msn.com">Larry
Diamond</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 10, 2002 9:50
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Weight Limit</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Keith,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>There are many differing opinions
on the topic...Here is mine...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>>>recruiting new members, growing
pattern</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you look at the survey
on RC Universe, I believe it confirm what some already knew. Participation is
lacking because of local interest as the # 1 hitter...So, ask why is pattern
not popular...One conclusion could be made that, to be competitive, you need a
good plane with good equipment. This cost much more than an average sport
flyer wishes to put out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>There are some that say
IMAC don't seem to have this problem. I'm not an IMAC'r, but I believe they
are doing a great job in marketing there sport to the average sport
flyer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Flying fields may get
to be an issue with larger planes. Some fields may start to limit size that we
fly contest at. If this happens it would be a direct hit on local interest. I
am about 150 miles to the closest contest over the last couple years.
Hopefully this next year can be different. This has been part of the reason I
have not been attending contest. Family Time Vs Contest Time. The closest
Pattern fliers to my area is 2 or 3 hours away. By nature, I'm a very
competitive person. Golf was very frustrating to me and I couldn't get my
scores below 90. I sold everything and vowed to never to play
golf again....I forgot to mention that my score is for 9 holes
<VBG>...Ever try to teach yourself something you don't know, and then
try to set up a plane to fly well which you don't have that level of
experience...It's taken two years to learn what I have. Mostly from this
discussion group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>>>advancing designs and
technology</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The material that we see in
pattern today are very light weight material and perhaps stronger. Engines are
bigger and lighter with more HP. Titanium Push Rods, CF push rods, CF/ Kevlar
Kits Vs Fiberglass. How many of those technologies would have made it in
pattern if Size and Weight was not a limiting factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I work in the Electronics
Industry and manage very cutting edge products that push the limits of
manufacturing. This leads to new ways of manufacturing. I managed a program a
couple of years ago where we put a .018 inch cube electronic device on a .008
inch PCB board at over 100K assemblies per month. This would not have been
necessary if the size of the product was increased. Comparing size and
performance of electronics could be compared to advancing technology in
Pattern Plane design. We would not be where we are today if cost and space was
not a concern for electronic consumers. Everyone would have a PC the size of a
closet and working on a 286 Turbo w/ EGA. Very high power for the consumer in
the mid-late 80's.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So, if we have gone as far
as we can in advancing technologies with Pattern Design and Performance. I
would agree to change the limit, -but not remove it-. I just don't think we
are at that point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Again, Twisted perception
from a twisted mind.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkeithb@attbi.com href="mailto:tkeithb@attbi.com">Keith Black</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:14
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Weight Limit</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Larry,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Honestly I haven't decided which side of this
issue I'm on. Could you explain why you think increasing the weight limit
would negatively effect the goal of recruiting new members, growing pattern
and advancing designs and technology? I don't see the
correlation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Keith</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>