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<P>Seems to me that I see "IMAC" mentioned many times in every model Mag. that I read and have looked for references to Pattern and see very few and if I see one it is reference to a 40 sized pattern plane advertisement. The more that something is mentioned the more people are exposed and ask questions about it. We have no exposure. What They See is What We Get!</P>
<P>Nothin!!!</P>
<P>Buddy <BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Tomanek, Wojtek" <TOMANEKW@SAIC-ABINGDON.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>>To: "'discussion@nsrca.org'" <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: Weight Limit
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:45:31 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>WHAT IS THE "IMAC'er our way".?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> -----Original Message-----
<DIV></DIV>> From: GeorgeF. [SMTP:av8tor@flash.net]
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:02 AM
<DIV></DIV>> To: discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: Weight Limit
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> A key point he made was the fact that IMAC is marketing itself to
<DIV></DIV>>the Sport
<DIV></DIV>> Pilots. And about 4-5 months ago I had mentioned on this forum
<DIV></DIV>>about NSRCA
<DIV></DIV>> should do a better job marketing itself to the sport pilot. But
<DIV></DIV>>instead
<DIV></DIV>> of getting any meaningful feedback I just got a bunch of crap from
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>> NSRCA president.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> I had offered suggestions but was pretty much told by the President
<DIV></DIV>>that
<DIV></DIV>> "we're already doing that and I have a plan for the NSRCA". However
<DIV></DIV>>we
<DIV></DIV>> never did learn what that plan was....
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> It appears the NSRCA is trying to cater to the wrong group. We need
<DIV></DIV>>to do a
<DIV></DIV>> better job of marketing our sport to the sport pilot which is a
<DIV></DIV>>market
<DIV></DIV>> share of nearly 100,000 pilots. The way I see it it appears the
<DIV></DIV>>NSRCA is
<DIV></DIV>> trying to cater and market itself to the IMAC crowd whos market
<DIV></DIV>>share is
<DIV></DIV>> only about 10,000 pilots. What is wrong with this picture??? The
<DIV></DIV>> IMAC'ers already have a "special interest" in this hobby and don't
<DIV></DIV>>need
<DIV></DIV>> another one (ie: pattern). The sport pilot (guy boring holes in
<DIV></DIV>>the sky
<DIV></DIV>> with their .40's, .60's and 1.20's) has yet to develop a "special
<DIV></DIV>> interest", it should be the job of the entire membership (including
<DIV></DIV>>its
<DIV></DIV>> elected officials) to sway the sport pilot to our ranks. I think it
<DIV></DIV>>would
<DIV></DIV>> be easier to sway a sport pilot our way then it would be to sway an
<DIV></DIV>>IMAC'er
<DIV></DIV>> our way.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> George
<DIV></DIV>> "the thorn with a point to make"
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> At 10:16 AM 11/12/2002 -0800, you wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> >Larry..
<DIV></DIV>> > Boy oh BOY... I hope members do a hard read of what you
<DIV></DIV>>posted. You
<DIV></DIV>> > address many of the issues that do stifle growth of pattern. I
<DIV></DIV>>also
<DIV></DIV>> > walked many miles in those moccasins of no help or guidance from
<DIV></DIV>>anyone
<DIV></DIV>> > and no list to learn from either. Others apparently have little or
<DIV></DIV>>no
<DIV></DIV>> > idea of the obstacles some of us have to deal with just to get a
<DIV></DIV>>plane up
<DIV></DIV>> > and working reliably. When you have local experience and expertise
<DIV></DIV>>it
<DIV></DIV>> > becomes a whole lot easier. Making it more difficult or change the
<DIV></DIV>>type
<DIV></DIV>> > of technology isn't going to stimulate pattern growth. I look
<DIV></DIV>>back at
<DIV></DIV>> > the change to 2 meter designs and how many insisted that the ole
<DIV></DIV>>60 size
<DIV></DIV>> > would still be competitive and a viable way to fly. Granted I was
<DIV></DIV>> > eventually able to win a couple of contests but best I place at
<DIV></DIV>>the Nats
<DIV></DIV>> > when it wasn't breezy was 7th. When the wind was blowing I was
<DIV></DIV>>scoring
<DIV></DIV>> > in the 20th plus place. The bouncy around was getting me nailed by
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>> > judges even though the book says that they aren't to do that. Look
<DIV></DIV>>at how
<DIV></DIV>> > many left when it went to turnaround.
<DIV></DIV>> > Very well thought out and worded post.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Del K. Rykert
<DIV></DIV>> > AMA - 8928
<DIV></DIV>> > NSRCA - 473
<DIV></DIV>> > Kb2joi - General
<DIV></DIV>> >----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> >From: <?xml:namespace prefix = mailto /><mailto:jed241@email.msn.com>Larry Diamond
<DIV></DIV>> >To: <mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>> >Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:50 AM
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: Weight Limit
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Keith,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >There are many differing opinions on the topic...Here is mine...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >>recruiting new members, growing pattern
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >If you look at the survey on RC Universe, I believe it confirm what
<DIV></DIV>>some
<DIV></DIV>> >already knew. Participation is lacking because of local interest as
<DIV></DIV>>the #
<DIV></DIV>> >1 hitter...So, ask why is pattern not popular...One conclusion
<DIV></DIV>>could be
<DIV></DIV>> >made that, to be competitive, you need a good plane with good
<DIV></DIV>>equipment.
<DIV></DIV>> >This cost much more than an average sport flyer wishes to put out.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >There are some that say IMAC don't seem to have this problem. I'm
<DIV></DIV>>not an
<DIV></DIV>> >IMAC'r, but I believe they are doing a great job in marketing there
<DIV></DIV>>sport
<DIV></DIV>> >to the average sport flyer.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Flying fields may get to be an issue with larger planes. Some
<DIV></DIV>>fields may
<DIV></DIV>> >start to limit size that we fly contest at. If this happens it
<DIV></DIV>>would be a
<DIV></DIV>> >direct hit on local interest. I am about 150 miles to the closest
<DIV></DIV>>contest
<DIV></DIV>> >over the last couple years. Hopefully this next year can be
<DIV></DIV>>different.
<DIV></DIV>> >This has been part of the reason I have not been attending contest.
<DIV></DIV>>Family
<DIV></DIV>> >Time Vs Contest Time. The closest Pattern fliers to my area is 2 or
<DIV></DIV>>3
<DIV></DIV>> >hours away. By nature, I'm a very competitive person. Golf was very
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >frustrating to me and I couldn't get my scores below 90. I sold
<DIV></DIV>>everything
<DIV></DIV>> >and vowed to never to play golf again....I forgot to mention that
<DIV></DIV>>my score
<DIV></DIV>> >is for 9 holes <VBG>...Ever try to teach yourself something you
<DIV></DIV>>don't
<DIV></DIV>> >know, and then try to set up a plane to fly well which you don't
<DIV></DIV>>have that
<DIV></DIV>> >level of experience...It's taken two years to learn what I have.
<DIV></DIV>>Mostly
<DIV></DIV>> >from this discussion group.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >>advancing designs and technology
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >The material that we see in pattern today are very light weight
<DIV></DIV>>material
<DIV></DIV>> >and perhaps stronger. Engines are bigger and lighter with more HP.
<DIV></DIV>> >Titanium Push Rods, CF push rods, CF/ Kevlar Kits Vs Fiberglass.
<DIV></DIV>>How many
<DIV></DIV>> >of those technologies would have made it in pattern if Size and
<DIV></DIV>>Weight was
<DIV></DIV>> >not a limiting factor.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >I work in the Electronics Industry and manage very cutting edge
<DIV></DIV>>products
<DIV></DIV>> >that push the limits of manufacturing. This leads to new ways of
<DIV></DIV>> >manufacturing. I managed a program a couple of years ago where we
<DIV></DIV>>put a
<DIV></DIV>> >.018 inch cube electronic device on a .008 inch PCB board at over
<DIV></DIV>>100K
<DIV></DIV>> >assemblies per month. This would not have been necessary if the
<DIV></DIV>>size of
<DIV></DIV>> >the product was increased. Comparing size and performance of
<DIV></DIV>>electronics
<DIV></DIV>> >could be compared to advancing technology in Pattern Plane design.
<DIV></DIV>>We
<DIV></DIV>> >would not be where we are today if cost and space was not a concern
<DIV></DIV>>for
<DIV></DIV>> >electronic consumers. Everyone would have a PC the size of a closet
<DIV></DIV>>and
<DIV></DIV>> >working on a 286 Turbo w/ EGA. Very high power for the consumer in
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>> >mid-late 80's.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >So, if we have gone as far as we can in advancing technologies with
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Pattern Design and Performance. I would agree to change the limit,
<DIV></DIV>>-but
<DIV></DIV>> >not remove it-. I just don't think we are at that point.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Again, Twisted perception from a twisted mind.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Larry
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> >From: <mailto:tkeithb@attbi.com>Keith Black
<DIV></DIV>> >To: <mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>> >Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:14 AM
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: Weight Limit
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Larry,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Honestly I haven't decided which side of this issue I'm on. Could
<DIV></DIV>>you
<DIV></DIV>> >explain why you think increasing the weight limit would negatively
<DIV></DIV>>effect
<DIV></DIV>> >the goal of recruiting new members, growing pattern and advancing
<DIV></DIV>>designs
<DIV></DIV>> >and technology? I don't see the correlation.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Thanks,
<DIV></DIV>> >Keith
<DIV></DIV>>
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