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<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Gray,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
believe Ed once told me he sourced his resin from Morton Thiokol, but he didn't
elaborate what it actually was. I guess I can understand that. Maybe they get it
from Shell ??Unfortunately the pipe I had from him ended up a molten blob. I
should never have put it behind a screaming 140L. Now, I cant even use it as a
mantle piece ( along with my OS 120 SP <VBG>)!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>At
least he offered that much info, which I respect him for.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> Bolly flat out wouldn't tell me the resin, nor would he sell me
some so that I could attempt to repair the ES. My experience sofar is that I
would be hard pressed to try another carbon pipe behind a 4 stroke. The DZ does
seem to run considerably cooler, so it may be worth another experiment when I
have some time to burn...which probably wont be for another 20 years or so
<VBG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In
comes Mr Hattori San, which is a little heavier. But it doesn't leak or melt,
and in my opinion sound much softer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I was
told that the high temp epoxies have an extremely short shelf life ( apart from
being very expensive) Is this so?</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
class=859045722-25032003></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=2><SPAN class=859045722-25032003><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>[Koenig, Tom] </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=859045722-25032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=859045722-25032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=859045722-25032003> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Gray E Fowler
[mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 26 March 2003 6:25
AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: question regarding
header & tuned pipe<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Without actually being privy to
what these guys are using resin wise, but experienced in identifying cured
resins, I would venture to say the the ES pipe is an aromatic amine cured
epoxy that is made by Shell Chemical , 8500 series. It is a liquid that cures
at a temperature about 200-250 F then can be post cured to give a glass
transition temperature (Tg) of about 350F. This means at 350F the resin
goes from the hard glassy state to a more "rubbery" state. The Tg is usually
when there is little to no structural capability, but these temperatures do
not necessarily damage the resin. When over exposed to temperature above the
Tg like the 425-450F exhaust, the resin will break down. The Bolly
appears to be a Bismaleimide resin which is a room temp semisolid resin that
has a Tg of 425-450 hence better header exhaust resistance. The leaking
of the pipe is most likely a result of the wet-layup manufacturing method us!
ed, leaving pinholes. Bolly's also have a kevlar outer layer which absorbs
water which gases off during cure creating pinholes. </FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>And then there is the chance I am guessing
wrong......</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Composites Engineering</FONT>
<BR><BR><BR>
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<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>s.vannostrand@kodak.com</B></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Sent by:
discussion-request@nsrca.org</FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>03/25/2003 12:47 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to discussion</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=Arial size=1> </FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1> To:
discussion@nsrca.org</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1> cc:
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
Subject: Re: question regarding header
& tuned pipe</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=2><BR>Bolly mufflers use a very different kind of resin that is more temp
resistent than the ES pipes. It will become brittle over time, but will
not ablate. Bolly's also eventually leak like a seive over their length
eventually.</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><BR>--Lance</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>
<BR><BR><BR></FONT>
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<TD width="42%"><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>Ron Lockhart
<ronlock@comcast.net></B></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> </FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><BR>Sent by:
discussion-request@nsrca.org</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>
</FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>03/25/2003 10:11 AM</FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1><BR>Please respond to discussion</FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></P>
<TD width="55%"><FONT face=Arial size=1>
</FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><BR> To:
discussion@nsrca.org</FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1><BR> cc:
</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1><BR> Subject:
Re: question regarding header & tuned
pipe</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><BR>Lance,<BR><BR>Would
you know, is the end of the pipe being exposed to exhaust <BR>gas a concern
with the Bolly pipes & mufflers?<BR><BR>TIA Ron
Lockhart<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From:
s.vannostrand@kodak.com<BR>Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:52 am<BR>Subject:
Re: question regarding header & tuned pipe<BR><BR>> Every change in
backpressure, due to the expansion chamber or <BR>> header change will
cause a wave reflection, however, the effects of <BR>> necking down from
7/8 to the approx 3/4" OS pipe will not be much. <BR>The bigger problem
is that if the pipe is composite (CF) you will <BR>ablate the pipe input and
ruin the pipe. I've seen 3 of these for <BR>repair. The hot
exhaust gasses can not be allowed to contact the end <BR>of the fibers and
resin for most resins. ES pipes fail in this <BR>fashion. Some
people have been successful in using a squishy coupler <BR>(like the Macs
grey) but this is not a reliable setup for most people. <BR>> <BR>> The
Mintor carbon fiber pipe (I have a N.I B. one for sale for <BR>> $160
including shipping) uses an aluminum inlet to prevent this. I <BR>>
also have a Macs to OS adapter made from aluminum for $12.<BR>> <BR>>
-Lance<BR><BR><BR>=====================================<BR># To be removed
from this list, send a message to <BR># discussion-request@nsrca.org<BR># and
put leave discussion on the first line of the body.<BR>#<BR><BR></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><BR><BR></FONT><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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