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<DIV>
<DIV>I agree...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If we have consistent judging, then the low average round becomes a product
of the environment for the round. More difficult environment should produce a
lower scoring round and the weight of the raw point should then be rewarded for
doing better than the other pilots.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not worried about winning right now. I feel like I've had a real
good flight when I survive to fly the next round...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Larry</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:WHIP23@aol.com">WHIP23@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 09, 2003 8:15 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Scoring Vs Judging</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 6/9/03 5:05:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<A href="mailto:jed241@msn.com">jed241@msn.com</A> writes:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">You need to blame this e-mail thread on two things. One is the
post that said it was quite; and two, you will soon see I have too much time
on my hands...<VBG><BR> <BR>Before reading any further, I'm only
trying to drum up trouble <VBG> I could be way off base here....I
really don't know...<BR> <BR>Due to my competitive nature (certainly
not my flying ability) I have given thought to the relationship of judging,
scoring, and the potential outcome of a certain phenomena called a low
average round (aka...a typically low scoring set of judges by
nature)...<BR> <BR>I could be wrong on this so please correct me if
I'm wrong...Here we go...I'm putting on my flame suit as I type...<BR>
<BR>Theory:<BR>Since the scoring procedure is to normalize each round, a set
of judges that scores low by nature will have more influence on the outcome
than a set of judges that scores higher by nature.<BR> <BR>Data:<BR>I
pulled a spreadsheet together and came up with the following numbers
(rounded to the nearest .01):<BR> <BR>Sportsman - Total KFactor points
per round is 19. This translates a perfect round that each raw score is
worth 5.26 normalized points per raw point (19*10*5.26). A round with an
average of 7.5 KFactor points has a normalized value of 7.0 normalized
points per raw point.<BR> <BR>If this is true (not claiming it is,
cause I don't know) and two pilots are close (separated only by 1 raw point
per round). It's possible that the pilot winning the lower averaged round
could win even though they share the same exact raw score. This wouldn't be
the case if they scoring system normalized the combined raw scores for all
rounds to determine the winner. This may be the case but I'm just trying to
start trouble...<VBG><BR> <BR>Average for rounds one and two per
KFactor point is 8; Rounds three and four is 7. Who should win?<BR>
<BR>Raw Scores:<BR>Pilot One (R1-152; R2-152; R3-132; R4-132) = total of
568<BR>Pilot Two (R1-151; R2-151; R3-133; R4-133) = total of 568<BR>
<BR>Should this be a tie?<BR> <BR>Nope, cause when you normalize by
the round and add individual rounds together you get the following results.
(assuming the formula is -->1000 / Highest raw score for the round X
pilots raw score for the round)<BR> <BR>Normalized:<BR>Pilot One
(R1-1000; R2-1000; R3-992.5; R4-992.5) = total of 3985<BR>Pilot Two
(R1-993.5; R2-993.5; R3-1000; R4-1000) = total of 3987<BR> <BR>Pilot
two wins due to the influence of the lower average scoring rounds.<BR>
<BR>I don't know how the scoring system works to compute the winner, but
would be interested to know if it is by the sum of the normalized rounds or
by normalized total of the raw scores per round.<BR> <BR>If you really
want to complicate things, just start thinking about the shift of the
outcome on Masters Maneuvers with high KFactors when the difference between
two pilots is only separated by 1/2 point on a given maneuver.<BR>
<BR>Conclusion:<BR>Consistency of scoring from judge to judge is just as
important as judging each pilot in a round. Unless again the total raw score
is normalized to define the winner.<BR> <BR>Now as my favorite
comedian always says, "This is only my opinion, I could be wrong". I also
admit that I may not know what I'm talking about cause I don't understand
the math behind it. Not meant to be sarcastic, cause it could be
true.<BR> <BR>If you actually got to this point, you are truly as
demented as I am...LOL<BR> <BR>Larry<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I'll chime
in here a little. I'm sure we can find problems with the scoring and
judging in any given situation, but remember our flying is not perfect and the
judging and scoring will never be perfect. I think if you work it
through you will find that normalization solves more problems than it
introduces. That said, we need to continue the current trend towards
better, more consistent judging, it's come a long way. And, I'll add
that if you are winning or being beat by a point or two then you don't really
know won anyway, all you know is you had a good fight (I mean a good time
:-) ) Solution, beat the "sucker" by a 100 points
:-)<BR><BR>Bob</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>