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<DIV>I can't say I totally agree. I understand the view point. However, once we
bring in the CD and how rules are applied, the CD has the AMA authority to
deviate from the rules as long as it is announced before the start of the
contest.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If a CD says a caller must call loud enough for the judges, I would expect
that this would happen. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Larry</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:k6xyz@attbi.com">David Harmon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 11, 2003 3:49
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Wrong Maneuver issues</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=496184920-11062003><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Totally agree Eric....TOTALLY!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=496184920-11062003><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Well Said!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=2>Regards<BR><BR>David Harmon<BR>NSRCA 586<BR><A
href="mailto:K6XYZ@attbi.com">K6XYZ@attbi.com</A><BR>Torrance, Ca. </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Henderson,Eric<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:42
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Wrong Maneuver
issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So
does this now become a national standard when it is not it is not a
rule book requirement? And how do you adjudicate the pilot who says
no? Will they get openly or subtly penalized for not doing it "your"
way?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>This puts the pilot in a very uncomfortable position if t don't want
to do. Ever taken the time to consider why you don't hear many complaints?
Of course they will say very little because they inherently fear it could
hurt their scores if they do not do what the judges or the CD wants.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>This is why we have AMA rules so individuals can't just go out there
and makes thing up because they have the power to do so, or because it is
their personal preference.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>E.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=088062820-11062003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088062820-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Tony Stillman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:27
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Wrong Maneuver
issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also like the manuevers called out,
especially at local contests. It solves many more problems than it
creates. It works very well in the Southeast, as most every contest we
attend, this system is used. Very few complaints from
anyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio South<BR>3702 N. Pace Blvd.<BR>Pensacola, FL
32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com">www.radiosouthrc.com</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:Eric.Henderson@gartner.com">Henderson,Eric</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:59
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Wrong Maneuver
issues</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>The idea of callers "helping" judges sounds good but is not at
all good in practice. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>First of all, you have to be close enough to hear. Pilots do not
want or need maneuvers shouted at them or even given in full text
descriptions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Secondly, some pilots do not actually have them called.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Thirdly, many pilots get the maneuvers verbalized in pairs so that
they can set up for the next center maneuver.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Last on this list, but not least, almost all pilots have the
maneuver called before the current one is
finished.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I am a big advocate of keeping the judges and the pilots apart in
all ways during the flight.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Regards,<BR><BR>Eric.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=553425019-11062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>WHIP23@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 11, 2003
11:29 AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Wrong
Maneuver issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 6/11/03
8:12:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Patternrules@aol.com writes:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE"><BR><B>Personally I like it when the caller calls the
maneuvers loud enough for the judges to hear, then I don't need a scribe
just a blank paper, then transcribe the # after the
flight.<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><I>Steve
Maxwell</B></I> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>I agree, with the caller calling the maneuvers loud
enough for the judges to hear, but I have found that there is a lot of
resistance to this proceedure. I've always viewed presenting the
sequence such that the judges could judge it, easily and correctly as part
of the "job" and the caller can contribute to that to a large degree, by
calling the maneuvers such that there is no confusion. I will also
point out that I have nearly been lynched for this position, on occasion
:-)<BR><BR>This otta' get some action going on the list (flame suit on,
bring it)<BR><BR>Bob</FONT>
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