<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 6/20/2003 10:52:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jivey61@msn.com writes:<BR>
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:<B>Re: Friday Night Masters' Question </B><BR>
Date:6/20/2003 10:52:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time<BR>
From:<A HREF="mailto:jivey61@msn.com">jivey61@msn.com</A><BR>
Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>
To:<A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>
<I>Sent from the Internet </I><BR>
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Matt<BR>
What you said I don't understand, because if the first roll starts at horizontal and ends at KE and the next 1/4 roll starts at KE and ends at horizontal the center isn't in the middle of KE.<BR>
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Am I DUH?<BR>
Jim Ivey<BR>
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Exactly what you are saying Jim. The middle of the hesitation is the middle of the 2/4. That is true for any point maneuver regardless of number of roll segments.<BR>
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A couple years back when we flew the 6/4, I was reasoning that a hesitation roll has two elements, the rolling and the hesitation. I was arguing that the middle of the maneuver was not the middle of second knife edge but rather the start of the 4th rolling element to horizontal flight. Then the sixth point had to end not after the rolling was done but the hesitation after that was done. Then came the straight and level inverted flight exit. <BR>
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It is a good argument but that isn't the way we define rolls in pattern.<BR>
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Rolls, continuous or hesitation, are defined as starting and ending with a rolling element. The straight flight before and after the roll are necessary elements of the maneuver as a whole also, but are not part of the rolls per se.<BR>
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Same with the 2/4 or 4/8 maneuvers. If you think of them as starting and ending with a rolling element, as continuous rolls do, then the middle is halfway between the start and finish.<BR>
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BTW- the Judging Committee has this item explained on the website. It is a sticky point and surfaces every now and then. But try to think of rolls of any flavor as starting and ending with a rolling element and you will see it.<BR>
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matt</FONT></HTML>