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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think the word "simultaneous"
just about removes any debate for me. Besides, a nose heavy plane can
have a break in pitch without ever leaving the line its on, where as a tail
heavy plane might jump up 5 feet. Which one is correct? They both
are. I like the visual description of holding a pencil or pen in your
fingers. Roll the pencil, and it is an aileron roll. Roll the
pencil and "wobble" the tip and eraser, and you have a snap.
Roll the pencil, and translate the whole pencil through a cylinder, and you
have a barrel roll. It hasn't really been said yet in this thread,
but be careful not to second guess the technique you think the pilot is
using. It doesn't matter how they do it, what matters is that we "judges"
see a snap. We talked about this at the </span></font><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Fresno</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>, </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>CA</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> contest this weekend.
Once I write this down, it may seen very "narrow" where as in
conversation we agreed that there were a number of ways to do it and that most
importantly, they don't all have to look the same plane to plane.
We thought that evidence of a good snap was (in no particular order):
change in airspeed, seeing the cone rotation of the tail or nose, rapid autorotation
in the 3 axis. We were discussing this because we happened to see some
barrel roll snaps, and some "linear" snaps or something and each
were zeroed, but represented two different ways to do a snap incorrectly.
After the round, we discussed it from the "pilots" perspective and
showed each other how much throw and such the different pilots were using for
the snaps. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Mike Mueller
[mailto:mmueller@triangleprinters.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Monday, June
23, 2003</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>1:38 PM</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>discussion@nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Snap rolls (long)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> Right on Claude!</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Weimer, Claude
[mailto:cweimer@wilkinson-mfg.com]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 23, 2003 12:41
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> discussion@nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Snap rolls (long)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=EmailStyle16><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial FAMILY=SANSSERIF><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Are
we trying to read more into judging criteria than is there? The rulebook
says simultaneous and I'm not sure the interpretation means the stall has
to come before pitch and roll. It seems to me the stall is caused by the change
in pitch regardless if yaw and roll are applied at the same time. </span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=EmailStyle16><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Patternrules@aol.com
[mailto:Patternrules@aol.com]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 23, 2003 11:53
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> discussion@nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Snap rolls (long)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Rule book page 78<br>
</span></font></b><b><font color=black face=Arial FAMILY=SANSSERIF><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black;background:white;font-weight:bold'>Snaps-----</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial FAMILY=SANSSERIF><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;background:white'>A snap is a <b><i><u><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>simultaneous</span></u></i></b>,
rapid autorotation in pitch, yaw and roll axes of flight in a stalled wing
attitude. The following criteria apply:<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
OK now here's where Earls explanation comes in: and he is correct, now it seems
that some wording is off in the rules the word <i><u><span style='font-style:
italic'>simultaneous</span></u></i> should not be there as in the next sentence
it clearly says that (initiated by a rapid stall of the wing induced by a
change in pitch attitude) this tells me I have been doing this wrong all the
time and need to do some work on this maneuver.<br>
<br>
An old fossil head like me it is much easier to do all the sticks at one time,
what I have always looked for is like the description on the snip, a cone and
it is pretty easy to see when someone is rolling out of the maneuver instead of
snapping all the way though. So now all that is left is to try and get these
old hands and mind to relearn something in 3 weeks, and review the judging tape
another time.</span></b><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New" FAMILY=FIXED><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black;background:white;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Thanks<br>
Steve Maxwell</span></font></i></b></p>
</blockquote>
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