<HTML><BODY STYLE="font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Paul </DIV> <DIV>I find that starting with learning the slow roll you have enough time to input the elevator when it is needed. This gives you a good feel for when and how much is required. Also if you are skittish about dropping altitude, enter the rolls with a up attitude. When this is accomplished just step up the rolling pace until you have mastered the rolls at the correct roll speed. This works very well for most people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jim Ivey</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Paul Reed</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 26, 2003 5:20 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: intermediate 402 rolling suggestions</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Jim<BR><BR>I'm an intermediate pilot who is currently practicing the two rolls using a<BR>"blip" of elevator @ 180 and 360 deg. My problem is consistency in timing<BR>and amount of elevator input. It is getting better but I'm not there yet.<BR><BR><BR>Paul Reed<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: discussion-request@nsrca.org<BR>[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]On Behalf Of D Suding<BR>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 1:13 PM<BR>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>Cc: jivey61@msn.com<BR>Subject: Re: intermediate 402 rolling suggestions<BR><BR><BR>Jim-<BR><BR>You are correct. But even the guys with balanced planes were ALL OVER the<BR>sky on those rolls. I was watching their elevator input, and I thought<BR>that this was a universal problem with the Intermediate guys.<BR><BR>Even with a perfectly balanced plane, you're going to have to add<BR>elevator, down-up-down-up. But my point is to not let that elevator input<BR>throw you off course. I like to call it a "blip" of elevator.<BR><BR>I would love to hear from an Intermediate pilot that goes out to the field<BR>tonight and tries it. Make sure you are flying high enough that a mistake<BR>isn't going to crash you.<BR><BR>-Dennis<BR><BR>> Dennis<BR>> These guys are flying nose heavy airplanes. If they would balance the<BR>> planes so that they are as neutral upright as inverted, or very near<BR>> as. The majority of the would go away.<BR>><BR>> Jim Ivey<BR>><BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: D Suding<BR>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 1:54 PM<BR>> To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> Cc: randy10926@comcast.net<BR>> Subject: Re: intermediate 402 rolling suggestions<BR>><BR>> I noticed something in the Intermediate class while I was judging in<BR>> Albuquerque. The two horizontal rolls looked bad even when performed by<BR>> the best pilots. I think I know why.<BR>><BR>> First, you can't just throw the stick to the right or left and wait for<BR>> plane to roll 720 degrees. It will lose too much altitude. You need<BR>> elevator.<BR>><BR>> Second, you don't start feeding the elevator when the plane gets past 90<BR>> degrees. This will make the plane cork-screw. I kept seeing this. The<BR>> plane would roll 90 degrees, and the pilot would feed some elevator,<BR>> increasing as it went to 180, then decreasing as it followed through to<BR>> 270 and so on.<BR>><BR>> Here's what you do:<BR>><BR>> 1) Find a roll rate that takes about 1.5 seconds to roll 360 degrees.<BR>><BR>> 2) Here's the trick: DON'T ADD ANY ELEVATOR EXCEPT AT 180 and 360<BR>> DEGREES!!!!! When the plane gets to 180, give it a SHORT, SHARP down<BR>> elevator to pitch the nose up to level. Then at 360 degrees, give it a<BR>> SHORT, SHARP up elevator to pitch the nose up again.<BR>><BR>> Of course, to get picky, you actually start feeding elevator at ~175<BR>> degrees, but the key is to really limit the duration of the elevator<BR>> input so that your purpose is to correct for the effects of gravity<BR>> only.<BR>><BR>> 3) Practice one thousand times.<BR>><BR>> Hope this helps.<BR>><BR>> -Dennis<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>> Yes you start with a half roll and end with a half roll. The inverted<BR>>> flight should be centered in the box and last at least 4 seconds.<BR>>><BR>>> Randy<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>> From: "kyle d." <baseballstar2@cfl.rr.com><BR>>> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:02 am<BR>>> Subject: intermediate 402<BR>>><BR>>>> Can anybody go through all the manevers. I really dont get the<BR>>>> striet in verted flight do u do a half roll then do another half<BR>>>> roll. because u are coming out of a split S. Or can u fint the<BR>>>> drawings for these maneuvers<BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>> ====================================> # To be removed from this list,<BR>>> send a message to # discussion-request@nsrca.org<BR>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.<BR>>> #<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ====================================# To be removed from this list, send<BR>> a message to # discussion-request@nsrca.org<BR>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.<BR>> #<BR><BR><BR><BR>=====================================<BR># To be removed from this list, send a message to<BR># discussion-request@nsrca.org<BR># and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.<BR>#<BR><BR>=====================================<BR># To be removed from this list, send a message to <BR># discussion-request@nsrca.org<BR># and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.<BR>#<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>