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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Catching this on video tape is going to be very
challenging. It would be cool if we could get this information accurately
recorded into a computer simulation, then it could be viewed from any angle,
with any background, and zoomed at any desired level. Furthermore the input
controls could be observed in conjunction with the physical orientation of the
plane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To get a real world recording of this telemetry
data would probably be extremely costly (unless someone on this list happens to
have access to this type of equipment). In lieu of the real world inputs perhaps
one of the experienced FAI pilots on this list could make some recordings in
RealFlight G2 and share those recording files. I would suggest several samples
of correct and incorrect snaps, also in different attitudes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is true that this may not be exactly
accurate but it will certainly be a good starting point and it is free for
people that already have RealFlight. And once it's in RealFlight a video
tape could easily be made and given to those that don't have
RealFlight.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I see the major challenge in doing this in
RealFlight is to come up with airplane profiles that will very closely perform
like different types of pattern planes from narrow bodied to wide bodies to
biplanes. However, if these profiles are setup they themselves would useful
to many on this mailing list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tony@radiosouthrc.com href="mailto:tony@radiosouthrc.com">Tony
Stillman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:19
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snaps</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>NSRCA was offered the professional services of
Jay Gerber (NFL Films, who made the Judging Video). Jay said he would
help, if we were interested, but he had done several test videos over the
years with production quality cameras, and found if very difficult to capture
a model on film to show details that we were looking for. The major
problem is getting a background so that you can evaluate deviations.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jay told me he would do anything to help us, so
maybe something will come of it. It is up for discussion at our board
meeting at the Nats....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio South<BR>3702 N. Pace Blvd.<BR>Pensacola, FL
32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com">www.radiosouthrc.com</A></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill
Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:31
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snaps</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Thanks, Tony, I had wondered about what had happened. A
video like this could be very beneficial, but could also be hard to
produce. Another organization of which I was a board member, had a
commercial company video a judges seminar, and a field session of
flying. The tape cost the organization $500, and was nearly
worthless. Lesson learned. <BR>I hope a tape of parallel quality to
the existing NSRCA tape on judging, can be produced.
<P>Bill Glaze
<P>Tony Stillman wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> <FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=-1>Bill:</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Some
funding had been approved and budgeted for, but the actual video turned
out much harder to make than was originally expected. This issue will be
discussed in the Annual NSRCA Board Meeting at the Nats next
week.</FONT></FONT> Tony Stillman <BR>Radio South <BR>3702 N. Pace
Blvd. <BR>Pensacola, FL 32505 <BR>1-800-962-7802 <BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com">www.radiosouthrc.com</A>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com
href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill Glaze</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 27, 2003 2:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snaps</DIV> It
seems to me that the NSRCA was working on a spin/snaproll video last
year. It mad a splash on this group, and then faded into
oblivion. Anybody remember it? Or know what happened to it?
<P>Bill Glaze
<P>Mike Turgeman wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE">
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>I agree with you. That's why I think a
video will help all of us to understand the discussed issues better. I
hope that there will be more than one video clip.The main thing I
would like to here comments about is the amount of attitude change
needed during the snap. Obviously the airplane must be stalled but no
one is flying with AOA sensor on board so the pilot and the judges
have to estimate the stall visually. I am interested to see what they
expect and how they estimate it.Mike</FONT></FONT>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=drykert@rochester.rr.com
href="mailto:drykert@rochester.rr.com">Del Rykert</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 27, 2003
4:13 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Re:Snaps</DIV> <B><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"><FONT
color=#0000ff>Good idea Mike but I have found video can sometimes be
misleading as different aircraft present so differently in some ways
regarding the snap. This thread has helped show just how challenging
it is to judge and fly correctly.</FONT></FONT></B> <B><FONT
face="MS Sans Serif"><FONT color=#0000ff>
Del K. Rykert</FONT></FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT
face="MS Sans Serif"><FONT color=#0000ff>
AMA - 8928</FONT></FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"><FONT
color=#0000ff> NSRCA - 473</FONT></FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"><FONT
color=#0000ff> Kb2joi -
General</FONT></FONT></B>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mike@bartan.com href="mailto:mike@bartan.com">Mike
Turgeman</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 26, 2003
12:33 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B>
Re:Snaps</DIV> <FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Hi all,Very
interesting discussion on a very important issue. As Earl
mentioned sometimes a good snap is misjudged because we are used
to see the bad one. I think so too. Most of the judges expect too
much attitude change and score zero for snaps with small attitude
change because they consider it as an axial roll.Maybe someone
could post a short video that demonstrate how a real 1 1/2 snap
should look like.Mike
Turgeman</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>