<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The composite fixed gear designs of today are quite the overkill in terms of strength, rigidity and weight. They could be made far lighter, less rigid and cheaply enough where, as they break on a hard landing, simply pull the pieces out and toss them. <BR>
<BR>
My good friend Nat Penton is using regular carbon tubing material for the struts, and uses a short piece of aluminum rod epoxied in the tube, to serve as wheel axle. A quick wrapping of kevlar thread, super glued on the carbon tube where the axle in epoxied, keeps the tube intact.<BR>
<BR>
He is reporting that the struts weigh in at less than 1 oz for both, with the farings installed to a fully airfoiled section, without the wheels. The length is 10 inches.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
PS- I prefer retracts to fixed gear for pattern planes except they are too heavyat around 6 ozs sans wheels. <BR>
<BR>
My composite gear that I make, come in at about 4 ozs with pants, for the pair, sans wheels, but will be using Nat's technique to reduce the weight further with little compromise in strength. I'll probably write about it for the KF. If you have been following my writings you should have learned that I have been keeping no secrets.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:<B>Re: fixed gear vs. retracts </B><BR>
Date:7/16/2003 12:31:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time<BR>
From:<A HREF="mailto:tkeithb@comcast.net">tkeithb@comcast.net</A><BR>
Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>
To:<A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>
<I>Sent from the Internet </I><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It wasn't that long ago that I was asking the same question on this list. I ended up going with retracts for three reasons. 1) Less bounce on landings, 2) Transportation and storage (no gear sticking out from fuse), and 3) Landings in the weeds are less likely to tear something up. All of these are major considerations for me.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Now I'm building my second 2M plane and I've decided to go with fixed gear for the following reasons. 1) Putting the plane together and taking it apart at the field is faster, no need to mess with hooking up the retract servo. 2) You can set the fuse on the ground and slap the wings on right by the car, no need to use a cradle as with retracts. 3) No need for constant inspection/tweaking with the struts. Even with smooth landings I periodically have to bend the struts back forward and I feel compelled to check them after each flight to avoid having them jam and draining the battery the next time I fly. 4) Makes the wings much easier to build. 5) When flying in poor light conditions, like when the plane is silhouetted by the sun, the gear sticking out gives another reference point to confirm orientation. This can be helpful when doing rolls, etc. and all you can see is a shadow. 6) With fixed gear you can taxi onto the runway and not carry the plane out each time.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Both approaches have their definite advantages. My main reservations with changing to fixed gear are damaging the fuse from deadsticking landings in high grass and scoring downgrades due to bounced landings. Hopefully these won't be a big issue. I'm looking forward to my fixed gear plane!</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Keith Black </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<B>From:</B> <A HREF="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">Wayne Galligan</A> <BR>
<B>To:</B> <A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:13 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> fixed gear vs. retracts<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
How light is light on the 7075 aluminum l.g. setup? My setup with Bolly F3A large gear with wheel pants, axles and wheels weights 7.5 oz I fly off grass and have had no problems with the setup where guys with retracts are constantly fiddleing and tweaking the struts. The big plus(for me) is set-up. Easier to build light wings, no linkages, one less servo, sets up in the field in no time flat. As for tearing it up on hard landing.... just dont land in the tundra. That is a plus for retracts if you have the gear up, otherwise retracts can tearup a good set of wings if stuck down or if one hangs up or colapses on landing on the runway. Its a fliers choice. I have fixed gear on 3 airplanes now and lovem all. <BR>
I personally like the looks of a nicely setup fixed gear airplane. <BR>
<BR>
Wayne G<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<B>From:</B> <A HREF="mailto:johnferrell@earthlink.net">John Ferrell</A> <BR>
<B>To:</B> <A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:50 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: Nats photos online<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From this site and personal experience:</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The change to fixed gear on the Prophecy seemed to require less power than those with retracts. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">It seems to me that the weight is about the same.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">A harsh landing with retracts usually results in needing a little attention on the struts.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The same landing with fixed gear frequently results in extensive damage to the fuselage.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">There is less bounce with retracts.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Taxii out is not recomended with retracts.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Retracts usually provide a wider footprint .</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The wire gear in the pictures on Pastorello's web site looks a little heavy but should be less punishing to the airframe than the fixed aluminum or composite gear.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">7075 Aluminum gear is lighter and more durable than any of the composite gear. Unfortunately, it is harder to work and not nearly as available as 6061.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">6061 aluminum for fixed gear is a waste of time.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">If landings were all scored K4, stif gear would go away...</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
John Ferrell <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>