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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"
color=#0000ff>Jerry.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" color=#0000ff>
In all seriousness would you consider submitting for publication your efforts? I
for one would be very interested as many others I suspect. Mark Sheda did such
many years ago and think it may be time to revisit that issue to the extreme you
mention. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"
color=#0000ff> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" color=#0000ff>
Del K. Rykert<BR> AMA - 8928
<BR> NSRCA - 473<BR> Kb2joi -
General </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"
color=#0000ff></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jbudd@QNET.COM href="mailto:jbudd@QNET.COM">Jerry Budd</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 24, 2003 1:27
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: ES Composite Pipe
Repair</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hey Ed,<BR><BR>Nobody is better qualified to speak to this than
I. I absolutely <BR>killed myself to get my E=MC3 down to make weight at
this years Nats. <BR>A month prior my E=MC3 weighed 11 lbs, 12 oz. I had
Dick Hanson <BR>build me a new set of wings to get within a couple of ounces
and then <BR>I started looking at weight on a gram by gram basis at the
component <BR>level. At the courtesy weighing on Sunday at the Nats I
was 18 grams <BR>over weight. I then took 2.3 ounces of weight out of
the airplane <BR>and I exactly made weight at the weight checks late Wed and
also <BR>after the finals on Thurs. I'll leave the math to those who
feel <BR>compelled to check my numbers (Hint: no, it doesn't add up! BTW
- <BR>Did you know that a standard JR switch harness/charge jack assembly
<BR>w/screws weighs 1 ounce?). Last year I pulled 11 ounces out of a
<BR>Gator G202 to get under weight for the Nats but it didn't matter <BR>since
I had engine problems on Monday. Maybe I should write an <BR>article
sometime on how to REALLY get serious about getting the <BR>weight out of an
obese airplane?<BR><BR>Anyway, my experience with the carbon fiber pipes is
that they are <BR>the second easiest/quickest way to save weight at the
component level <BR>via substitution (changing from an aluminum wing tube to a
carbon <BR>fiber tube is the first, wheels are third, and the fuel tank comes
<BR>fourth). Of course weight gain due to exhaust soak can be an issue
<BR>with some of the more porous composite pipes (like the Bolly) but <BR>IMHO
it is nonexistent with the ES pipes.<BR><BR>As far as the problems with inlet
temperature I haven't seen this <BR>when running a 2-stroke motor so I'd have
to say that it's one of <BR>those costs associated with running a
4-stroke. My ES pipes are now <BR>3 years old and in nearly perfect
operating condition (I've been <BR>4-stroke free since
2000).<BR><BR>Jerry<BR><BR><BR>>You wouldn't believe the lengths ( read $$
and time ) I went to to <BR>>shave mere grams from my EMC. The ES pipe I
have weighs exactly 3 <BR>>oz. I'm all for the durability and cost
reduction of an aluminum <BR>>pipe over unobtainium, but that ounce plus is
sure hard to find <BR>>elsewhere. <BR>>Ed M.<BR>><BR>>-----
Original Message -----<BR>>From: <<A
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com>Rcmaster199@aol.com">mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com>Rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR>>To:
<<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>>Sent:
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 7:35 PM<BR>>Subject: Re: ES Composite Pipe
Repair<BR>><BR>>Maybe it's me but I just don't get this apparent love
affair<BR>>with the carbon pipes. Epoxy as the binder, as Gray states, is
<BR>>marginal in almost all 4 stroke cases I have heard about. And to
<BR>>make these things super light, you have got to make then thin, so
<BR>>strength is doubly compromised, especially on four strokes with
<BR>>their 500+ degree stack temp.<BR>><BR>>A hi temp plastic binder
such as a PTFE emulsion, or maybe polyimide <BR>>emulsion is a better
alternative but then the cost would be 2x and <BR>>impractical. And
ceramics, aka Space Shuttle heat shield tiles, are <BR>>out of this world
(sorry Gray, I couldn't resist)<BR>><BR>>How much weight is actually
saved over a "lightweight"ally pipe <BR>>anyway? The Greves is a little
over 4 ounces, the Macs 20 cc is a <BR>>little over 5 ounces and the Hatori
is a little over 6. Are we <BR>>talking, what, 4 ounces tops?? Isn't there
someplace else one could <BR>>remove 2 to 4 ounces?<BR>><BR>>Hey, I
am a big proponent of progress and composites offer great <BR>>advantages
in the correct places, but I have to question if this is <BR>>one of these
places<BR>><BR>>Firesuit..... hell forget the firesuit> I'm thick
skinned enough, <BR>>literaly, so fire away<BR>><BR>>matt
K<BR>><BR>>>Subj:Re: ES Composite Pipe
Repair<BR>>>Date:9/23/2003 6:38:01 PM Eastern Daylight
Time<BR>>>From:<<A
href="mailto:edbon85@optonline.net>edbon85@optonline.net">mailto:edbon85@optonline.net>edbon85@optonline.net</A><BR>>>Reply-to:<<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>>>To:<<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>>>Sent
from the Internet<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>Gray, I'm
listening. A short lived $200 plus pipe is not affordable <BR>>>either.
Short of going back to aluminum and the weight penalty, do <BR>>>we have
another alternative ??<BR>>>Ed M.<BR>>><BR>>>>-----
Original Message -----<BR>>>>From: <<A
href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com>Gray">mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com>Gray</A>
E Fowler<BR>>>>To: <<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>>>>Sent:
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 5:40 PM<BR>>>>Subject: Re: ES Composite
Pipe
Repair<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>Concerning
this repair, there is not a commercially available <BR>>>>adhesive
that is going to do the job long term. The adhesive I <BR>>>>used on
Wayne's pipe is an aerospace grade epoxy called Hysol <BR>>>>9394,
rated at 350F. AT 350F this epoxy exhibits about 25% of its
<BR>>>>room temperature strength-and this is about the best room
<BR>>>>temperature curing high temp epoxy available-in short
all the <BR>>>>stuff such as JB weld is crap at the temperatures we
are talking <BR>>>>about. The inlet temp of our mufflers makes for a
brutal <BR>>>>environment and unfortunately anything that cures at
room <BR>>>>temperature just is not going to do the job very well. In
reality <BR>>>>Hysol 9394 is borderline. No easy answer here, and is
evident by <BR>>>>the constant postings about burned out
inlets....there is a <BR>>>>problem with the composite
mufflers. Actually there is an answer, <BR>>>>but I do not
think our pattern market can afford it.<BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>___________<BR>Jerry
Budd<BR><A
href="mailto:jbudd@qnet.com">mailto:jbudd@qnet.com</A><BR>=====================================<BR>#
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