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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eric:<BR><BR>The problem with that is that some
judges are LOOKING for a reason not to be used. They see it as a
distraction from their task of winning a contest. If they could do
something to be kept off the line, they would, as long as they would not be
disqualified to fly! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This happened at the NATS several times, when a
person could pay the late entry fee and not be included in the worker
list. I know of several who did this for this very reason...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio South<BR>3702 N. Pace Blvd.<BR>Pensacola, FL
32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com">www.radiosouthrc.com</A></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Eric.Henderson@gartner.com
href="mailto:Eric.Henderson@gartner.com">Henderson,Eric</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:19
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Judging Landing &
take-offs. (was Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=409511616-12112003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Ron,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=409511616-12112003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> Maybe we
should select judges like we do jury selection. If they insist on
applying their own rules then they don't qualify to
judge.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=409511616-12112003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=409511616-12112003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>E.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=409511616-12112003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=409511616-12112003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ron Van
Putte<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:10 AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Judging Landing & takoffs. (was Re: Spoilers for Pattern
Planes?????)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><!-- Converted from text/enriched format --><BR><BR>
<DIV>On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Del Rykert wrote: </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><B><FONT color=#000fff>I agree here and I was taught that takeoffs are
centered but landings are to use the 30m zone. Is that not that the intended
interpretation.</FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT color=#000fff></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT color=#000fff> </DIV>
<DIV></FONT></B></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<DIV>That's what the rule book says. BUT, some judges who are opinionated,
stupid, uninformed, you pick the reason, think the landing must be centered.
</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>----- Original Message -----</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>From:</FONT></B><FONT face=Arial> <FONT
color=#000eee>davel322@comcast.net</FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>To:</FONT></B><FONT face=Arial> <FONT
color=#000eee>discussion@nsrca.org</FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Sent:</FONT></B><FONT face=Arial>Tuesday, November
11, 2003 3:41 PM</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Subject:</FONT></B><FONT face=Arial>Landing (was
Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)</FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV>Respectfully, I must disagree. </DIV><BR>
<DIV>If the rules aren't being followed, they should not be eliminated.
</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Barrel rolls and "twinkle" rolls pretending to be snap rolls routinely
get </DIV>
<DIV>scored and should be zeroed. Should we stop judging snaps?
</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Flopped stall turns (more than 150 degrees off in roll axis) routinely
are not </DIV>
<DIV>zeroed. Should we stop judging stall turns? </DIV><BR>
<DIV>Judging is not an easy task, and there will always be room for
improvement. </DIV>
<DIV>Where the rules are gray (no matter how clear they seemed when
originally </DIV>
<DIV>authored) and interpreted in various ways, there is room to clarify the
rules. </DIV>
<DIV>When the rules are clear and ignored, they need to be politely
enforced. </DIV><BR>
<DIV>So far as landing - we have a system for scoring centering on maneuvers
and I </DIV>
<DIV>personally don't think we need something different for landing - it is
just an </DIV>
<DIV>additional rule that adds needless complexity (but I will follow it as
long as </DIV>
<DIV>it is there). Besides, at many fields, the landing zone is never
marked, or </DIV>
<DIV>because of field layout, the landing zone is not used (in which case
landing in </DIV>
<DIV>the zone or centering of the landing would not be part of the judging
criteria). </DIV><BR>
<DIV>Dave Lockhart </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000eee>DaveL322@comcast.net</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>> Wayne: </DIV>
<DIV>> </DIV>
<DIV>> Exactly the point. If we can't follow the rules to judge it
properly, maybe </DIV>
<DIV>> it's time to quit judging it. After all, this maneuver has
not changed </DIV>
<DIV>> much, even from the early days of pattern <VBG>
So, if we STILL can't </DIV>
<DIV>> judge it, let's try something else.... </DIV>
<DIV>> </DIV>
<DIV>> I see this problem at most all of the contests every year,
including the </DIV>
<DIV>> NATS. I judge Masters class, and find that many of the FAI
judges sitting </DIV>
<DIV>> with me don't know the rules to judge it. </DIV>
<DIV>> </DIV>
<DIV>> </DIV>
<DIV>> Tony Stillman </DIV>
<DIV>> Radio South </DIV>
<DIV>> 3702 N. Pace Blvd. </DIV>
<DIV>> Pensacola, FL 32505 </DIV>
<DIV>> 1-800-962-7802 </DIV>
<DIV>><FONT color=#000eee>www.radiosouthrc.com</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
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