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<DIV> James </DIV>
<DIV> I have seen that also. </DIV>
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<DIV> We have to use scribes that really know what is expected and how important these scores are to the pilots. I</DIV>
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<DIV>The question is how do we get scribes that are trained and responsible. that is difficult unless they are pilots. It is very sad when a pilot has to scribe judge and fly at a contest. </DIV>
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<DIV> It really is not as simple as "just write down what I tell you" Man</DIV>
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<DIV>When its 100 degrees out and we need scribes many are asked to help that are not really ready to scribe. I often wonder was it the Judge or the scribe that wrote that outrageous O or 5 when it should have been a 9 :-)</DIV>
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<DIV>. We really do not have an answer yet. Perhaps we might have some of the sophisticated suggestions made on the subject put into action. Research the idea. An extra dollar or two from each contest to work on an electronic program. A committee could be set up with the NSRCA</DIV>
<DIV>Might take awhile but its a move towards a solution. Lets face it the score a scribe writes down decides the winner.</DIV>
<DIV>Marguerite</DIV>
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<DIV>In a message dated 4/19/2004 5:51:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, James.Woodward2@edwards.af.mil writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>I know I'm way-late on this thread however, the use of a scribe does not in<BR>itself guarantee better judging. Just this weekend, we/I witnessed judges<BR>using scribes for Masters & FAI, looking "down" to tell the scribe what the<BR>score is..... it was kind of funny to watch. In fact, given that they were<BR>looking down before the use of a scribe, the addition of a scribe only<BR>increase the chances of errors, as they (still looking down), had to<BR>transfer information to another person.<BR>Jim W.<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] On<BR>Behalf Of Ed Miller<BR>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:43 PM<BR>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"<BR><BR>Well, you are in charge of judging at the BDS contest so go for it.<BR>Personally, since we have so few spectators at a contest I don't see who it<BR>is benefiting. IMHO seems like we've found a lot of answers for an<BR>unnecessary question. If all this would lead to eliminating the scribe,<BR>helping judges judge better and helping the CD the day of the event I'd be<BR>all for it. The hand signals to the scribe and the judge placing the scores<BR>on a separate sheet to then be transferred to the official score sheet to me<BR>is a classic example of complicating a simple task. The only way to<BR>eliminate scribes is for every judge to know by heart every sequence of<BR>every class by heart, not realistic. Short of an electronic scoring device,<BR>I don't see anything here that is simple enough to have repeatable, 100%<BR>correct results. We ought to focus our energy on preparing better judges and<BR>simplifying and clarifying maneuver descriptions so there is no room for<BR>interpretation.<BR>Ed M.<BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Anthony Romano" <anthonyr105@hotmail.com><BR>To: <discussion@nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:57 PM<BR>Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"<BR><BR><BR>><BR>> I like the idea. Scribe reads maneuver, judge writes score, scribe flash<BR>> score to the attendees and reads next maneuver. Could help improve judging<BR>> and make contest more interesting. When my parents came to a contest they<BR>> were bored silly untill I gave them play by play of a few flights.<BR>> Anyone willing to try it?<BR>><BR>> Anthony<BR>><BR>> >From: mike mueller <mups1953@yahoo.com><BR>> >Reply-To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> >To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> >Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"<BR>> >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:37:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>> ><BR>> > The way I propose the hand signals to work is like this:<BR>> > Right hand signifys 6 to 10 the thumb and index finger would be a 7.<BR>For<BR>> >half numbers you simply move the fingers to your palm and extend them<BR>> >several times. A whole number stays put and extended. Numbers under a 5<BR>are<BR>> >on the left hand. I really think that the simplier we keep it the better<BR>it<BR>> >could succeed.<BR>> > Again I'd like to know if someone would like to trial this system at a<BR>> >contest. If only for a couple of rounds with willing participants. I<BR>think<BR>> >it's worth a try. I don't think there's anything in the rules that would<BR>> >prevent this. Thanks, Mike<BR>> ><BR>> >Lance Van Nostrand <patterndude@comcast.net> wrote:<BR>> >for me, I totally agree with these guys. RVP was the first to suggest<BR>this<BR>> >that I heard at the nats a few years ago and I started doing it this way<BR>> >and knew it was the way to go. I write the scores on the pad in a column<BR>> >without taking my eyes off the plane.<BR>> > Maybe the easiest, low tech way to announce the scores is to have the<BR>> >scribe be the "publisher" for the manuver scores during the flight, and<BR>> >then copys the scores to the official sheet in between rounds.<BR>> > As a technology guy (s/w engineer) I'd love to see electronic<BR>> >scoreboards and PDA systems, but for over 100 years simple hand signals<BR>> >have served the arbitragers in the stock market. A simple adaptation of<BR>> >this system would be:<BR>> >1. Show the main score with your fingers, top of the hand facing the<BR>> >audience<BR>> >2. If a hand is turned so that a palm is facing the audience, then add<BR>1/2<BR>> >point<BR>> ><BR>> >Even if there are a few mistakes along the way with the palms, the<BR>audience<BR>> >will be informed to within a 1/2 point.<BR>> ><BR>> >--Lance<BR>> ><BR>> >----- Original Message -----<BR>> >From: Ron Van Putte<BR>> >To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> >Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 7:57 AM<BR>> >Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >On Apr 17, 2004, at 5:47 AM, Del K. Rykert wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >The only other system I have found that works well is using a pad to<BR>write<BR>> >down the scores and hopefully the scribe can read my scribble and I don't<BR>> >overwrite my scores. It is better but not perfect. At least not perfect<BR>for<BR>> >me. When I have a knowledgeable scribe that is used to my system scores<BR>> >flow. When I have a warm body stuck in scribes chair the system breaks<BR>down<BR>> >no matter what the system is in some cases especially while judging FAI.<BR>> > Keep the thoughts flowing and something better might be created.<BR>> ><BR>> >I do what Del describes, except that I usually don't use a scribe. After<BR>> >the last airborne maneuver, I transcribe from the pad to the scoresheet.<BR>I<BR>> >am usually done before the airplane is on final landing approach.<BR>> ><BR>> >Ron Van Putte<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >---------------------------------<BR>> >Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> >Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢<BR>><BR>> _________________________________________________________________<BR>> From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring<BR>> Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx<BR>><BR>> =====================================<BR>> # To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>> and follow the instructions.<BR>><BR><BR>=====================================<BR># To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>and follow the instructions.<BR>=====================================<BR># To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>and follow the instructions.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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