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<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Maybe
these guys have a good system? Maybe they don't have a track record of fires
& such? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> I think IF the new precautions are heeded at least if something
goes wrong you only loose an old Barbecue grill!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> Clint Eastwood said it best: "Do ya feel
Lucky"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> People have known for a couple years about these problems and have
kept quiet about it. Even the companies themselves were worried that the
bad press would ruin there new found Market. I think the most important
questions are:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> How good of a liability insurance policy do I have & Do the
companies pedaling these little firecrackers have ANY
insurance?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> DO NOT confuse what is in your laptop with what is in your heat
shrink wrapper. SPECIFIC USE BATTERIES HAVE SAFETIES!!!!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> DELL GATEWAY TOSHIBA And the likes have at least 3
different types of charge & discharge technology. same as your camera
batteries.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
AND THESE COMPANIES HAVE HAD ISSUES!!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
I know of one failure where the cause was due to the manufacture/Company, They
were having other issues & trying to "recall" there stuff,Sort of! So don't
think that it is ALL user error. But the potential for error is even worse when
you factor in all the things a user could do to ignite.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> Has anyone noticed the big Battery players in the US Will not sell
cylindrical Li-ion raw cells to the public. They usually come from far east
suppliers. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
This is not meant to be a campaign against anyone or any particular product. I
just gotta be able to lay my head on the pillow at night and KNOW I did
everything I could to make others aware. In the event something really bad
happens & we are all wondering why & how. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> IF there are ANY LEADERS in this industry they need to be
challenged to 1st Speak the truth even IF they loose $$$. Second that they
develop safe products that are exposed to our lives. There are irresponsible
players out there. Trust me!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=609403911-07052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> "Do ya feel lucky"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Keith Black<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 07, 2004 3:31
AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Charging
concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not trying to start a "heated" debate about
the safety of lithium batteries, but I purchased a couple of these packs just
before the AMA warning and now I have some concerns and questions.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question revolves around how the NMP batteries
are built and how the NMP charger works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In the past I'd believed that fires with lithium
batteries are primarily due to user error when charging, typically one of the
following errors: 1) Using the wrong type of charger, 2) setting the charger
for the wrong battery type/cell count, or 3) trying to charge cells too
quickly, in excess of 1C. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>However, I did some research on E-Zone and found
that these packs can catch fire even on a slow charger if they are charged
beyond 4.2 volts per cell. This means if your charging a multiple cell pack
and cells differ in voltage by more than 1 volt and the charger keeps charging
until (total cells x 4.2 volts) is reached then even slow chargers can
cause a fire.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Therefore, my question is does circuitry exist
either in the NMP battery pack or in the NMP charger to assure that a single
cell will never be charged in excess of 4.2 volts? If so, how does this
work?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If this circuitry exists then we can
probably feel quite safe leaving the NMP batteries inside our planes while
charging just as we do with our laptops, cell phones, cameras etc. If not then
we're taking a big chance charging inside our planes, vehicles and houses (as
has been pointed out on this list before).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>FYI, I was shocked when I visited E-Zone and
found that the electric guys have known for a long time that fires are not
only a possibility but have occurred many times. In fact, it's common
knowledge in the electric community that precautions such as charging in a
flame proof container, not charging in vehicles or homes, never leave the
battery unattended, etc. must be observed when charging. I found it
very interesting that there are even numerous people working on various types
of fire-proof charge bags made from things like ceramic fibers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Obviously the electric guys push things to the
extreme with their batteries, but if such a simple thing as exceeding 4.2
volts can catch a cell on fire then we should make sure our batteries/chargers
have circuitry to prevent this or we must take the necessary precautions when
charging.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here's a link to a good Lithium safety primer on
E-Zone:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187">http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks to anyone who can share the details of the
NMP lithium system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
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