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<DIV><SPAN class=807074610-10052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Your
pretty close with this one Kieth!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=807074610-10052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
Just beware of the "Glossy ADs"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Keith Black<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 10, 2004 12:19
AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Charging
concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have no inside knowledge to answer to your
question, but I'll just venture a guess... <STRONG>Answer: </STRONG>R&D
and QA budget. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Companies who sell laptops, PDA's, cell phones,
etc. are typically huge companies with enormous R&D departments. Their
entire business is inventing new technologies. Part of their product
requirements for mobile devices are power systems that will support the
product x hours, weight less than y amount, etc. etc.... AND NOT CATCH ON
FIRE! Sure, all companies will put out defective devices periodically, but
they have an intensive development and Quality Assurance process that attempts
to eliminate all problems, especially user injury. They also have warehouses
of lawyers telling them they better not kill anyone!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Disclaimer: </STRONG>The following is a
fictional account that I just made up out of thin air. (but I bet I'm pretty
close)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The RC industry is much easier to break into for
smaller players than the big industries listed above. Some of these players
innovate with new ideas, designs, etc., but many are just savvy businessmen
that see the opportunity to create a business by repackaging and reselling
existing technology. I'm not knocking savvy businessmen that repackage and
resell, many millionaires have been created from doing this in many many
industries and it takes a special person to see the opportunity and execute an
idea to make a business successful. I respect this ability.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>However, in the case of the RC battery industry
it's led to products being released that are unsafe due to virtually no
R&D or QA process. Think about how we got here, there were numerous
individuals that saw how ridiculously expensive NiCad and NiMH battery packs
were and realized they could get raw cells for a fraction of the cost.
Why not buy some, solder them together and make a business out of
it? Numerous business minded hobbyist did and ended up creating companies
that specialize in selling these packs, no harm done.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Selling NiCads and NiMH will generate a few extra
bucks, but it's not exactly a home run. The big win in business is being
an early adopter of new technology and becoming the leading name brand. Enter
the new lithium technology. Some very savvy business guys clearly saw this new
technology and figured they could build a business (or grow an existing
business) by offering the new miracle battery, so they did just as the NiCad
and NiMH guys did, gather information on the cells from the manufactures, do a
little testing, solder cells together and sell them. The only problem is,
these powerful cells also create powerful fires.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>End of fictional
account.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Today there are some RC battery manufactures that
are offering circuitry to prevent overload induced fires, this is a great
thing and hopefully will eventually make lithium batteries as safe for RC use
as they are for the laptop I'm using to type this email. Others companies
selling to the RC industry still have no safeguards. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Are the safeguards used RC manufactures as
thorough as those used by the main-stream industries? I don't know, but I
wish I did. Are their testing procedures as rigorous as the big
companies? I don't know. Is the budget for safety as extensive? Is the
brain power working on safety in RC applications equivalent? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>These are all questions that I certainly can't
answer, but for our sake I'd hope the answer to all will eventually be
yes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm sure I've pissed at least someone off with
this email, that's not my intention. This is just my "wild" guess as to why
we're where we are.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 09, 2004 9:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Charging
concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2
PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I have tried to stay out of most of this
discussion but something is gnawing at me. I have asked this question
before, but don't believe I have gotten an answer. Maybe no one on the list
knows <BR><BR>Since Li-ion and Li-poly technology is widely used in cameras
and cell phones, and these are recharged all the time (in the home and
without special power supplies like separate 12 volt sources and such) with
extremely safe circuitry, why is it that the folks who offer these same
battery types to us, use charging circuitry that isn't so bullet
proof???<BR><BR>Certainly currents and voltages are different in some
applications, but the chemistry is the same. And Lithium metal will burn
with ferocious intensity whether 20 grams are exposed or 10 times that
amount. The heat is enough to burn your plane or house either
way.<BR><BR>Matt K<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Subj:<B>Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion
batteries </B><BR>Date:5/9/2004 12:33:04 PM Eastern Daylight
Time<BR>From:<A
href="mailto:kerlock@comcast.net">kerlock@comcast.net</A><BR>Reply-to:<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>To:<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR><I>Sent
from the Internet </I><BR><BR><BR><BR>First off, I'm not looking for
compassion. That was a simple explanation as<BR>to why a guy who is
normally cheery, laughing and all smiles could go into a<BR>practically
homicidal rage over a smart a* comment<BR><BR>Secondly and most
importantly, I'd like you to explain to me, with as much<BR>detail as
you'd like, how my position is extreme in any way, shape or form.<BR>To
me, an extreme position would be "ban lithium batteries". I have
never<BR>said or proposed any such thing. I'd like to know how
recommending caution<BR>and informing the uninformed could POSSIBLY be
viewed as extreme. Or is<BR>anyone even bothering to read, or are they
just glancing and knee jerking?<BR><BR>And I don't need any type of
apology, but thanks for the thought. I mean it.<BR><BR>-Mike<BR><BR>-----
Original Message ----- <BR>From: "John Ferrell"
<johnferrell@earthlink.net><BR>To:
<discussion@nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 10:12
AM<BR>Subject: Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion
batteries<BR><BR><BR>> We can always start over. I am sometimes guilty
of "picking on" someone<BR>> because their reaction is extreme. I see
now that I should investigate<BR>> conditions further to assure that
what I intend as good natured joking is<BR>> not taken as insensitive
and cruel. Fortunately, it was not I that was the<BR>> perpetrator this
time, but it could have
been.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>