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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>A big problem I see in judging at especially local comps is
we are expecting too much from the people who sit in the chairs. The schedules
are much more complex than they use to be and there isn't much time between
manoeuvres to think. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I see this a lot in Aus were I fly F3A and a majority of
the people sitting in the chairs just don't have enough experience. Most of the
guys don't even know the manoeuvres because the F3A schedules have become so
demanding and technically complicated. I am not blaming judges but it has become
a very difficult task these days to do a good job. I even struggle trying to
judge the lower classes and I have quite a bit of
experience. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I don't have any answers but it has become a 2 edge sword.
People are getting turned off pattern because judging may appear to be not up to
scratch. And the schedules are such that a part time judge / flyer finds it
very difficult to apply a consistent and unbiased scores to all contestants
over the course of a weekend because the demands are too
high.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I can only speak from what I have seen at our local comps
were judging particularly in the higher classes is based more on impression
rather than precision.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Peter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=941001101-21052004> </SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Rcmaster199@aol.com
[mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 21 May 2004 11:01
AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Be A Good
Judge//was:RE: Defensive judging to avoid retaliation.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Contestant judging has flaws, no doubt about
that. But I can't agree that returning to the old days where, in local events,
people with very little knowledge about pattern and its many intricacies, were
judging guys with many many years experience in pattern. That was not my idea of
fairness in judging. <BR><BR>Not all Contestant judges "get it", but many, maybe
even most, do. It is a better system than what we had, at the local level at
least. And many of us are continuing to help bring the word out to all.
<BR><BR>At the 2002 Nats I recall an F3A'er who apparently just did not want to
judge us in Masters, so his scores were consistently 20-30% lower than the
others. We all knew who he was however, when it was his time to fly F3A, at
least on the panels I judged with other fellow Masters pilots, he was judged
fairly with no bias towards retaliation that I saw. <BR><BR>Yes we do have some,
that for whatever reason, will not do their jobs correctly, at local events or
nationals alike. But let's not forget the many that accept the responsibility
with pride, and do a great job in choosing those that won and those that didn't,
without fear of retaliation. My hat off to all who judge fairly. My suggestion
and hope for the future is "Be A Good Judge" no matter what. The sport of
pattern truly depends on it.<BR><BR>Matt Kebabjian<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Subj:<B>Re: Defensive judging to avoid retaliation. Are you
guilty? </B><BR>Date:5/20/2004 12:19:25 PM Eastern Daylight
Time<BR>From:<A
href="mailto:johnferrell@earthlink.net">johnferrell@earthlink.net</A><BR>Reply-to:<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR>To:<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR><I>Sent from
the Internet </I><BR><BR><BR><BR>I have never been so hungry that I needed a
customer like that. Anyone who believes ANYTHING that customer has to say is
also suspect, they are buying into lying. </FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12" BACK="#ffffff"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10" BACK="#ffffff">Everyone of those type of
individuals we encourage to remain in the sport costs us at least 10 other
potential contestants. </FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12"
BACK="#ffffff"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"
BACK="#ffffff">The worst thing you can do to your buddy in this game is to
hide bad news from him. Eventually he will have to face honest judges and he
will be hurt. Although it is not recommended practice, it is good for judges
to compare scores on a given flight occasionally. Just to see how well you are
tracking. I felt compelled to do this last weekend because I felt my good
friend and practice buddy was getting some awfully good scores from me. I
trust Bill Mitchell's judging so I asked that the three of us compare the
scores at the end of the flight. We were all pleased to see that Bill was just
flying good, my friendship had not tainted the results!</FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12" BACK="#ffffff"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10" BACK="#ffffff">If a guy cannot face the facts
(contestant or judge) he needs to find something else to do!</FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12" BACK="#ffffff"><BR><BR>John
Ferrell <BR><A
href="http://dixienc.us/">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10" BACK="#ffffff">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">----- Original Message ----- <BR><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:drykert@localnet.com">Del Rykert</A> <BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> <BR><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:04 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Defensive judging to
avoid retaliation. Are you guilty? <BR><BR><BR><B>Using contestants as
judges has many ugly sides. I remember when some prominent fliers would
register late for NATS to get out of judging. I remember being told by a
prominent flier he didn't need to attend the judging seminar at the NATS as
he preferred to go out and practice being it was elective. Crying shame we
have to legislate answers to many issues that the ugly side of people
present. Bottom line in my mind is honor and character sure doesn't mean
what it once did. </FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12"
BACK="#ffffff"></B><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"
BACK="#ffffff"><B> Is inexcusable for anyone to retaliate
while judging. What do we do though. Ban them from competing? It is unfair
for Tony and anyone in that position to have that dilemma. </FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12" BACK="#ffffff"></B><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"
BACK="#ffffff"><B>
del
<BR>
NSRCA - 473</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12"
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