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Troy: I don't think you're crazy if you say you did it. If you say so,
that's it. Having said that, I sure wish I had access to the same trim
expert you did.<span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span><br>
I remember Tony Frack saying "not 10% of the flyers out there know how
to trim an airplane." I'm pretty sure I'm in the 90% compared with the
top flyers. And some of them probably are working harder than they
need to, because of trim problems. Problem is, if you go a long time,
you automatically compensate, and probably never know you have a
problem, until a "really, really good flyer" flies your plane, and says
"What the heck is going on with this thing? Do you REALLY fly it like
this, or are you just kidding me?<G><br>
Anyway, I thank you for the information, as always.<br>
<br>
Bill Glaze<br>
P.S. I really enjoyed watching your flying at Muncie. Top drawer.<br>
<br>
<br>
Troy Newman wrote:<br>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Vicente,</font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I can feel when the servo gears are
worn and also when the pots are worn. I'm not the natural pilot that
some of the guys are....I work very hard at it. I become very "in Tune"
with my model and I can tell when something changes. Yes Digital
servos will compensate for worn pots better than analog servos because
of the way they find center. Same thing with worn or sloppy gear
trains. I said compensate better...but the problem still remains. In a
really good setup I believe anyone can feel it.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Where I find the biggest problem in
my flying with worn pots or gears in in loop tracking. I learned a
little last year from an expert in pattern model trimming. I found that
my models while they flew well didn't loop track for beans. I had a
model that once we got done with it.....I could set the power at about
1/3 and pull or push tight I mean tight square corners....As in pull
the wings off it square corners for about 3-5mins without ever touching
the ailerons, rudder or throttle....and the model without any wind
would stay in the exact same spot! I thought we were going to pull the
wings off it....</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">You may think I'm crazy and that it
is not possible but we did it. Since then I have repeated the same
thing with about 4 other models. If the wings were level the model
would pull the corner perfectly straight every time. When the servos
especially on the ailerons get worn you CAN"T do this type of thing. In
a corner the ailerons are forced by flight loads and they are required
to hold their position. A weak servo will blow back, and a servo with
sloppy or worn gears will move some amount before the servo begins to
hold its position. In this scenario you are getting a "flapperon"
effect. Inside corner will result in the ailerons raising slightly
before the servo pushes back and holds the position. The ideal
situation for the air foil and the model is to not have the ailerons
move at all....but in reality things are flexing and twisting all the
time. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">So you say well the slop is the same
in both servos so they flex the same amount......is it really the exact
same slop on both sides? How can you tell its the same? Any difference
in the two sides will change the shape the of the wing and cause more
lift on one side vs. the other.....When this happens you can't pull or
push a straight corner. The reason is one side will make more lift than
the other.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Next problem with sloppy gears in
turbulence....If the gear trains are loose in turbulence the model will
not lock on. The pilot may say man it bumpy up there....In reality the
model will sit still better if the ailerons are not allowed to move
that 1/8th to 1/4 degree. I proven it with my models.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I hear from pilots all the time that
"I'm not good enough to feel that little difference" My answer to them
is your model is not setup well enough to allow you to feel it. I'm not
saying that your setup is not good...I'm just saying if you can't feel
the difference in new vs. sloppy gear trains your set needs to be
better than it is.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">In the last 2 years I really
have been a student of how bad my model setups were, and how much
better they can get. As a result my quality of flying has gotten better
and better in the last couple years. It still needs to be better to
reach the goals I have set for myself. However without properly trimmed
models I would never had achieved the small amount of success in the
last 2 years that I have.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Trimming is a thing that is only as
good as your level of expectation. Once you feel one that it is
correctly setup and trimmed all lesser setups will feel poor to you. If
you have never tasted a Filet Minot then you might think that Burger
King has the best Beef around. This is not being stuck up or
arrogant...Its a fact. Grab up the average sport fliers Tiger 2....and
you will be able to tell the linkage is sloppy or the servos are
weak....or the thrustline is off. The reason is you know in your head
it can be better than it is. Same thing with pattern models. Until you
fly a really well trimmed model you have no idea of how much better it
can be. Many take the "That's about Right" approach and are sadly happy
with the result they got. As your knowledge grows so does your
expectations.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">In the past couple years I have been
lucky enough to fly lots of models. Both in helping other pilots trim
their models, and my own models. I can say this almost any design out
there can do the sequences, and any design out there can be setup to
fly them very well. Attention to detail, and the knowledge that the
model can get better is a start. Then the expectation the models needs
to be better than it is will drive you to excellence. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">If your setup can't tell the
difference between a new tight servo and a sloppy one.... then let us
work on your setup so you can "Feel the Difference." The difference is
there but other issues and problems in a setup will mask it. We spent
lots of money on precision digital servos, stiff CF pushrods, slop free
ball bear clevis links, Laser pointers to set control throws to 1/10th
of a degree and yet many don't pay attention to the basics of the model
setup. We pay lots of money for precision equipment like 1024PCM that
has resolution like nothing we have seen in the model industry since
the beginning and then we set our Dual rates at 50% travel and only use
1/2 of the electronic resolution of the TX, and servo.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Back in the old days before I was
even flying pattern, the radios didn't allow for a quick fix of this or
that, and the pilots had to be good with the sticks or had to know how
to make the model setup correct. I'm not saying that I wish the old
days were here...but Trim work is an art form. There are very few
artists left...Most pattern pilots think the model is trimmed if it
doesn't have any coupling with rudder. Well there is a ton more to
model setup and trim than just setting up a Prog Mix that gives X%
elevator when the rudder is deflected.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Please don't anyone take offense
when I say the above.....I'm not telling you your skills at model setup
are for crap....I'm just telling you that your model can be better than
it is. To me this was an eye opening experience and I really started to
feel the differences. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The best advice I can give to
someone that is struggling with pattern or with flying a certain
maneuver is make you model fly better and the work load on you the
pilot will be much less. WHEN the model is doing the work...the rest
becomes much easier. Our models are tools to do the job. We expect
laser type precision at times, and yet some guys show up with a
chainsaw. Yes both will cut the thing that needs cut....its just a
matter of the end results.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">TN</font></div>
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