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<DIV>Because Tony proposed exactly that a cycle or two back and it was rejected.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Ferrell <BR><A
href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob Pastorello</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judging questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Someone illuminate for me...how can one say the first part radii does NOT
set the standard, when it is compared to other part radii's in the whole
maneuver???? Am I missing something that is so fundamental that I am
blind to it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Or was that part of the downgrade not identified in the rule book?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Or do I not have the most current rule book?</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:32
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Webra and Judging
questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Dave, I echo DL's comments. Don't think twice about it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Basically, in any maneuver requiring a radius to enter it and exit it,
(pretty much all non-rolling maneuvers), none of the radii within the
maneuver are "THE Standard One" that the others are compared to for
equivalence. They all stand alone and are compared to the others within the
maneuver. If the judge sees the same radii for all looping elements, he
assesses no downgrade for the looping elements. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Note that there are other elements in most maneuvers such as lines,
rolls and multiple point rolls,angles, snap rolls, and
superposition within a single plane (like two loops) etc., so
there are downgrades galore in any maneuver just waiting. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If all four looping elements (4 corners in Dave's example square loop)
are different, then they are all different compared to each other. Depending
on severity, I assess 3-4 point downgrade for this infraction alone if
that's all I saw different. Remember it's the pilot's responsibility to fly
with the most precision possible because maneuver accuracy is absolute
and not relative. He must also make the maneuver as easy to judge as to
leave no doubt in the judge's mind.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>HOWEVER, (caps to make the point) If I did not see an error, I award
the maximum points possible. I know some say that there is no maneuver that
can possibly be done perfectly. Personally, I don't know how true such a
statement is but IF I didn't see an error, then it did not happen for me,
regardless of how much the pilot had to fight the plane in a crosswind to
make the maneuver perfect. Always remember to judge track and not attitude,
since every maneuver must be flown in a wind corrected fashion if there's
wind present</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Judging the present day schedules is not easy or for the faint of
heart. Please never hesitate to ask for advice on judging of any of us long
timers. It is the part of our sport that needs the most work still and I ask
all who read this to become better students of judging. There is a
great amount of information that must be assimilated to be a fair
judge. Please, please, please, ask questions. Consider how much time we
spend flying and honing our skills. Is it fair for an incompetent,
uncaring judge to judge someone's superior flying skill?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards and my apologies for the long note,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mattk</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>Dave,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>No pardon needed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Obviously enough, once the 1st radius is completed, it must be
duplicated 3 times or downgrades will occur. However, the idea is
this - 3 of 4 radii (any 3) on a square loop match - the 4th (any 1) is
larger or smaller. It doesn't matter whether the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or
4th radius is the one that does not match - the downgrade is for 1 radius
being mismatched.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A square loop at center could have 4 radii that are all different and
still be a square - judge the overall shape of the maneuver - ie -</DIV>
<DIV>- up and downline are equally spaced left/right of the center
pole and maintain vertical track, </DIV>
<DIV>- top and bottom lines maintain track with same entry/exit
altitude,</DIV>
<DIV>- distance between top/bottom lines is same as up/down lines.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And while I suspect you know, in addition to the entry and exit radii
needing to be equal on humpties, they are only 2 of the 3 radii in the
manuever - the entry and exit radii must be equal to the top (or bottom)
half loop radius. Same goes for things like the goldfish (entry,
exit, and 3/4 loop) and golfball (entry, exit, and 3/4 loop) in the F3A
schedules - and those are probably 2 of the manuevers where I've seen the
greatest variance in radii.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A title=mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:d.wartel@comcast.net
href="mailto:d.wartel@comcast.net">David Wartel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:32
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Webra and Judging
questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Narrow"><FONT size=3>Please pardon my ignorance,
but I'm fairly new to pattern and judging.</FONT> <FONT size=3>I'm
having a hard time understanding this. Nothing was said about this at
the judging seminar I attended in June, (that I
remember) except that radii should be equal. Also, if maneuvers are
judged on symmetry, how can, for instance, a square loop or cuban eight
be symmetrical if the radii are not all equal?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3>Matt, I hope you can clarify your
answer as it seems contradictory to me. On one hand the first radius
does not set the standard for the others, but the entry and exit radii
should be the same for Humpty's and top hats etc??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3>Dave</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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