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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes, I can hardly disagee with your assessment for
centering except there are times when my definition needs to be applied
also. This would, as the rules currently stand, probably be an
interpretation and should be considered by the full Judging Committee if
required.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkeithb@comcast.net href="mailto:tkeithb@comcast.net">Keith Black</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judging questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have no questions related to the overall
judging of the square loop that you described, however I do question the
theory of centered maneuvers beginning as you pass center. In my opinion that
would depend on the maneuver. A loop or avalanche would begin at center. The
square... perhaps since you have to complete the last corner and fly straight
to complete the maneuver. However, consider a reverse Cuban or a slow roll,
clearly these maneuvers begin before center. Even the centered stall turn in
masters, since you have to match the radii entering and exiting, clearly this
maneuver starts before center. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Maybe the beginning of a maneuver should be
considered as where the maneuver deviates from the straight line prior to the
maneuver. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Probably just semantics, but food for
thought. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donramsey@cox-internet.com
href="mailto:donramsey@cox-internet.com">Don Ramsey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:18
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judging questions</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm sure you were told in the judging seminar
that all radii of a multiple radii maneuver must be the same for no
downgrade. This is not a rule interpretation but a stated rule of
judging just as all roll rates must be the same in multiple roll maneuvers
for AMA. It would be an interpretation if the first radius was used to
downgrade the others even if they were all the same. The first radius
is only used as a comparison to the others. Any radius of a multiple
radii maneuver that is different from the others is downgraded. It makes no
difference if the inconsistent one happens to be first. Although this
puts a burden on the judge that's the way it is. To make the
point, suppose a square loop is flown with the first and third radii the
same and the 2nd and 4th the same but different from 1 and 3. There
are 2 downgrades but does it matter if the downgrades are for the 1st
and 3rd radii or the 2nd and 4th? Same square loop but all radii are
different. There are now 3 downgrades and does it matter which radii
you consider correct? Same square but all radii are the same except
the first. There is now only one downgrade for the first radius.
The point deduction would depend on the severity of the difference.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This question is the same as asking if the
first point of a 4 point roll sets the rate for the remainder
of the maneuver. If you allow the first element to set the standard for the
remainder of the maneuver you are making an interpretation of the rules and
that should not be done. If the roll rate changes it's a
downgrade. For instance, on the point roll say the first roll is slow,
the second faster, the third faster still and the roll out the same
rate as the roll to inverted. What's the downgrade for roll
rate? 2 rolls had the same rate and 2 were different so there is 2
downgrades and one of the downgrades is for the rate of the first
point. The point deduction would depend on the severity of the
difference.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Same for the line length in a square
loop. The first length does not set the length for the others, it is
only used as a comparison to the others. I've been told not to say,
"This is the way I would do it," but this is the way I would judge a square
loop. Every time the model passes in front of the judge there is a
maneuver to be executed. That indicates to me the square loop starts
at center and draws half of the horizontal line. If the
model then flies a long line from center out, I'm suspicious that the
vertical line might be short or the maneuver is going to be off
center. As the pull (push) is made watch the radius for
comparison. Now watch the vertical for lenght and comparison to
other lengths to be flown and check the track for vertical. As the
next radius is drawn, compare to the first. If different take
a deduction depending on the severity of the defect. Compare the
next horizontal line lengtht to the lenght of the vertical and watch the
track for any deviation. If different assign another downgrade based
on the severity of the defect. Compare the 3rd radius to the other 2
and make your adjustment based on that radius comparison. Now compare
the last vertical to the other vertical and horizontal and note the
track. Make any downgrades necessary. Compare the last radius to
the others and note exit track. Determine centering and make
downgrades if necessary. Actually centering could have been determined
when the second vertical was started. Watch the exit line and write
your score. Wow! No where in this did I say compare to the first
radius or line length.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My thougth process might go like this.
Model is parallel to flight line passing center and there is a line between
the last maneuver so maneuver is now a 10. First radius large and
track is vetical, 10. Note line lenght. 2nd radius smaller than
first but not too much, 9. Exit track is off about 10 degees,
8.5. Horizontal line is considerably longer than vertical, 7.
Radius is about the same as 2nd radius, no downgrade, 7.
Vertical tracks vertical, no downgrade, 7. Last radius is sharp,
different from 1st, 2nd and 3rd radius, 6. Track is parallel and exit
line is on track, 6. Write a 6 for the score.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This was more than I meant to say, hope someone
reads it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don</FONT></DIV>
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