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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm sure you were told in the judging seminar that
all radii of a multiple radii maneuver must be the same for no downgrade.
This is not a rule interpretation but a stated rule of judging just as all roll
rates must be the same in multiple roll maneuvers for AMA. It would be an
interpretation if the first radius was used to downgrade the others even if they
were all the same. The first radius is only used as a comparison to the
others. Any radius of a multiple radii maneuver that is different from the
others is downgraded. It makes no difference if the inconsistent one happens to
be first. Although this puts a burden on the judge that's the way it
is. To make the point, suppose a square loop is flown with the first
and third radii the same and the 2nd and 4th the same but different from 1 and
3. There are 2 downgrades but does it matter if the downgrades are
for the 1st and 3rd radii or the 2nd and 4th? Same square loop but all
radii are different. There are now 3 downgrades and does it matter which
radii you consider correct? Same square but all radii are the same except
the first. There is now only one downgrade for the first radius. The
point deduction would depend on the severity of the difference.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This question is the same as asking if the
first point of a 4 point roll sets the rate for the remainder of
the maneuver. If you allow the first element to set the standard for the
remainder of the maneuver you are making an interpretation of the rules and that
should not be done. If the roll rate changes it's a downgrade.
For instance, on the point roll say the first roll is slow, the second faster,
the third faster still and the roll out the same rate as the roll to
inverted. What's the downgrade for roll rate? 2 rolls had the same
rate and 2 were different so there is 2 downgrades and one of the downgrades is
for the rate of the first point. The point deduction would depend on the
severity of the difference.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Same for the line length in a square loop.
The first length does not set the length for the others, it is only used as a
comparison to the others. I've been told not to say, "This is the way I
would do it," but this is the way I would judge a square loop. Every time
the model passes in front of the judge there is a maneuver to be executed.
That indicates to me the square loop starts at center and draws half of
the horizontal line. If the model then flies a long line from center
out, I'm suspicious that the vertical line might be short or the maneuver is
going to be off center. As the pull (push) is made watch the radius for
comparison. Now watch the vertical for lenght and comparison to other
lengths to be flown and check the track for vertical. As the next radius
is drawn, compare to the first. If different take a deduction
depending on the severity of the defect. Compare the next horizontal line
lengtht to the lenght of the vertical and watch the track for any
deviation. If different assign another downgrade based on the severity of
the defect. Compare the 3rd radius to the other 2 and make your adjustment
based on that radius comparison. Now compare the last vertical to the
other vertical and horizontal and note the track. Make any downgrades
necessary. Compare the last radius to the others and note exit
track. Determine centering and make downgrades if necessary.
Actually centering could have been determined when the second vertical was
started. Watch the exit line and write your score. Wow! No
where in this did I say compare to the first radius or line length.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My thougth process might go like this. Model
is parallel to flight line passing center and there is a line between the last
maneuver so maneuver is now a 10. First radius large and track is vetical,
10. Note line lenght. 2nd radius smaller than first but not too
much, 9. Exit track is off about 10 degees, 8.5. Horizontal line is
considerably longer than vertical, 7. Radius is about the same as 2nd
radius, no downgrade, 7. Vertical tracks vertical, no downgrade,
7. Last radius is sharp, different from 1st, 2nd and 3rd radius, 6.
Track is parallel and exit line is on track, 6. Write a 6 for the
score.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This was more than I meant to say, hope someone
reads it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.wartel@comcast.net href="mailto:d.wartel@comcast.net">David
Wartel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judging questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3>Although it is
counterintuitive, I accept and, if ever asked to judge, will try to apply what
Dave Lockhart and Scott have explained about this. Without this topic having
come up, I would have compared all radii to the initial one in all looping
maneuvers. It seems more logical to me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3> I can't
envision attempting a square loop and saying to myself, "Oops! I made the
initial radius too sharp. I'll just make the other three larger and hope I
only lose one point." But the interpretation in question allows for
this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3>Where do these
rule interpretations come from? Who makes them? Are they in writing
somewhere? Maybe there should be rule interpretaion
addendum. Do all certified judges know about these? I just attended a
seminar and I didn't.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3>Other than
snaps and spins (let's not go there!), are there other "secret" rule
interpretations we should know about?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3>No intention to be sarcastic here; I just want to play the
game correctly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=3>Dave
Wartel</FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>