<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<<<Brandon
<br> and Kevin's circles "SEEM" perfectly
acceptable.>>>
<p>I agree with Earl. "SEEM" to who??? Skinner??? How
the heck can an individual make a statement, regarding a maneuver that
is being performed at 450 meters, as being "perfectly acceptable" when
the rules that he espouses clearly states that a severe downgrade should
be awarded at even 200 meters?
<br>A guy has no basis for making a statement of clarification without
justification.I think some of these "chair" people need to be a little
more pensive.
<br>G.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>Don Ramsey wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Here's
some clarification on the rolling circle from F3A Committee Chairman Bob
Skinner. There are several emails here but the gist of the matter
is distance out on the rolling circle and downgrades for exceeding the
200 meters (severe downgrade). The final response was, "<span class=343395703-05082004><font color="#0000FF">The
main criterium here is visibility."</font></font></font></span> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Don</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob
Skinner's reply to the E-Mail I sent him regarding the rolling circle.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
hope this clears up a few things</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob
Ailles</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>----- Original Message
-----</font></font>
<blockquote dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><span class=343395703-05082004><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Dear
Bob</font></font></font></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span><span class=343395703-05082004><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Maybe
the description could have been put differently. Currently it states that
if done TOWARDS the runway, it must not infringe on the box limits, in
which case the normal progressive downgrade would apply. In all my years
of being involved in competitive aerobatics, I have never seen one done
towards the runway.</font></font></font></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span><span class=343395703-05082004><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>The
main criterium here is visibility. If the pilots do the circle so large
that you are unable to see the change-over, or any other component of the
manoeuvre clearly, it's not going to earn a high score. From your description,
Brandon and Kevin's circles seem perfectly acceptable.</font></font></font></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span><span class=343395703-05082004><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Best
regards</font></font></font></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span><span class=343395703-05082004><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Bob
Skinner</font></font></font></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span><span class=343395703-05082004></span>
<blockquote dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" lang="en-us" dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1>-----Original
Message-----</font></font>
<br><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>From:</b> Robert Ailles [<A HREF="mailto:thejudgebob@blueyonder.co.uk">mailto:thejudgebob@blueyonder.co.uk</A>]</font></font>
<br><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</b> 04 August 2004 22:48</font></font>
<br><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>To:</b> Bob Skinner (E-mail)</font></font>
<br><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</b> Rolling circle</font></font>
<br> </div>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Dear Bob</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Is
there something wrong here, or is it just me not grasping the meaning of
the description or the judging notes of this manoeuvre.</font></font> <b><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>F-05.10
Rolling circle with three rolls opposite directions, first roll to the
outside:</font></font></b> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Perform
a rolling circle (away from or <b><u>towards the runway</u></b>)</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>yet
in the juding notes, it states the manoeuvre must be downgraded if done
towards the runway.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob
at the present Brandon and Kevin start this manoeuvre at a depth of approximately
110metres and go out to a depth of 350 to 450 metres approximately.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>At
what depth do you feel they should be and is 450metres to deep?</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Regards,</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob
A</font></font></blockquote>
</div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:donramsey@cox-internet.com" title="donramsey@cox-internet.com">Don
Ramsey</a></font></font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>To:</b>
<a href="mailto:thejudgebob@blueyonder.co.uk" title="thejudgebob@blueyonder.co.uk">Robert
Ailles</a></font></font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:59 PM</font></font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</b>
Re: Rolling circle</font></font></div>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob,</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>We
showed leniency in our team trials also on the rolling circle but there
were some judges who believed the rule book should be followed and downgraded
for anything beyond 200 meters.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>On
the rolling circle done in:</font></font><font size=-1><font face="Wingdings">!
</font><font face="Times New Roman">Manoeuvre must be downgraded if the
circle is too large, and too far out, or if done towards the runway, the
circle is outside the manoeuvring zone.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
believe this to indicate it should be downgraded if it goes out of the
box on either end or on top. All these box violations might happen
if the roll was done in.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Thanks
for you reply,</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Don</font></font>
<blockquote dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>----- Original
Message -----</font></font></div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:thejudgebob@blueyonder.co.uk" title="thejudgebob@blueyonder.co.uk">Robert
Ailles</a></font></font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>To:</b>
<a href="mailto:donramsey@cox-internet.com" title="donramsey@cox-internet.com">Don
Ramsey</a></font></font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:45 PM</font></font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</b>
Fw: Rolling circle</font></font></div>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Don</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Sorry
for the delay in answering your E-Mail.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
would say that a depth of 500metres would receive a 3 point downgrade,
for being to deep.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>But it
is a hard one to call for a judge, as we have no way of measuring the true
depth, I feel we do need to show some leniency up to 400metres but that
for Bob Skinner to decide.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>At
the moment we are showing some leniency over here, rightly or wrongly how
knows.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>A copy of the E-Mail
sent to Bob Skinner. I will send you a copy of his reply.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>are
the comment I made on landing sequence OK and do you agree with them.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1> Is
there something wrong here, or is it just me not grasping the meaning of
the description or the judging notes of this manoeuvre.</font></font> <b><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>F-05.10
Rolling circle with three rolls opposite directions, first roll to the
outside:</font></font></b> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Perform
a rolling circle (away from or <b><u>towards the runway</u></b>)</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>yet
in the juding notes, it states the manoeuvre must be downgraded if done
towards the runway.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>At
the present Brandon and Kevin start this manoeuvre at a depth of approximately
110metres and go out to a depth of 350 to 450 metres approximately.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>At
what depth do you feel they should be and is 450metres to deep?</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Regards,</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bob
Ailles</font></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>