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Keith,
<br>Yup!
<p>Keith Black wrote:
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<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Don,</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
have no questions related to the overall judging of the square loop that
you described, however I do question the theory of centered maneuvers beginning
as you pass center. In my opinion that would depend on the maneuver. A
loop or avalanche would begin at center. The square... perhaps since you
have to complete the last corner and fly straight to complete the maneuver.
However, consider a reverse Cuban or a slow roll, clearly these maneuvers
begin before center. Even the centered stall turn in masters, since you
have to match the radii entering and exiting, clearly this maneuver starts
before center.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Maybe
the beginning of a maneuver should be considered as where the maneuver
deviates from the straight line prior to the maneuver.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Probably
just semantics, but food for thought.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Keith</font></font> -----
Original Message -----
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<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:donramsey@cox-internet.com" title="donramsey@cox-internet.com">Don
Ramsey</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org" title="discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:18
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Judging questions</div>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>David,</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I'm
sure you were told in the judging seminar that all radii of a multiple
radii maneuver must be the same for no downgrade. This is not a rule
interpretation but a stated rule of judging just as all roll rates must
be the same in multiple roll maneuvers for AMA. It would be an interpretation
if the first radius was used to downgrade the others even if they were
all the same. The first radius is only used as a comparison to the
others. Any radius of a multiple radii maneuver that is different from
the others is downgraded. It makes no difference if the inconsistent one
happens to be first. Although this puts a burden on the judge that's
the way it is. To make the point, suppose a square loop is flown
with the first and third radii the same and the 2nd and 4th the same but
different from 1 and 3. There are 2 downgrades but does it matter
if the downgrades are for the 1st and 3rd radii or the 2nd and 4th?
Same square loop but all radii are different. There are now 3 downgrades
and does it matter which radii you consider correct? Same square
but all radii are the same except the first. There is now only one
downgrade for the first radius. The point deduction would depend
on the severity of the difference.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>This
question is the same as asking if the first point of a 4 point roll sets
the rate for the remainder of the maneuver. If you allow the first element
to set the standard for the remainder of the maneuver you are making an
interpretation of the rules and that should not be done. If the roll
rate changes it's a downgrade. For instance, on the point roll say
the first roll is slow, the second faster, the third faster still and the
roll out the same rate as the roll to inverted. What's the downgrade
for roll rate? 2 rolls had the same rate and 2 were different so
there is 2 downgrades and one of the downgrades is for the rate of the
first point. The point deduction would depend on the severity of
the difference.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Same
for the line length in a square loop. The first length does not set
the length for the others, it is only used as a comparison to the others.
I've been told not to say, "This is the way I would do it," but this is
the way I would judge a square loop. Every time the model passes
in front of the judge there is a maneuver to be executed. That indicates
to me the square loop starts at center and draws half of the horizontal
line. If the model then flies a long line from center out, I'm suspicious
that the vertical line might be short or the maneuver is going to be off
center. As the pull (push) is made watch the radius for comparison.
Now watch the vertical for lenght and comparison to other lengths to be
flown and check the track for vertical. As the next radius is drawn,
compare to the first. If different take a deduction depending on
the severity of the defect. Compare the next horizontal line lengtht
to the lenght of the vertical and watch the track for any deviation.
If different assign another downgrade based on the severity of the defect.
Compare the 3rd radius to the other 2 and make your adjustment based on
that radius comparison. Now compare the last vertical to the other
vertical and horizontal and note the track. Make any downgrades necessary.
Compare the last radius to the others and note exit track. Determine
centering and make downgrades if necessary. Actually centering could
have been determined when the second vertical was started. Watch
the exit line and write your score. Wow! No where in this did I say
compare to the first radius or line length.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>My
thougth process might go like this. Model is parallel to flight line
passing center and there is a line between the last maneuver so maneuver
is now a 10. First radius large and track is vetical, 10. Note
line lenght. 2nd radius smaller than first but not too much, 9.
Exit track is off about 10 degees, 8.5. Horizontal line is considerably
longer than vertical, 7. Radius is about the same as 2nd radius,
no downgrade, 7. Vertical tracks vertical, no downgrade, 7.
Last radius is sharp, different from 1st, 2nd and 3rd radius, 6.
Track is parallel and exit line is on track, 6. Write a 6 for the
score.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>This was more
than I meant to say, hope someone reads it.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Don</font></font> </blockquote>
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