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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Any one using a bladder tank with their Webra 145
or 160? Some poeple at the local fuel has started using them in sports
plane for fuel related problems. Seems to sovle thier
problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Randy</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wgalligan@goodsonacura.com
href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">Wayne Galligan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 13, 2004 10:43
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: hopper theory &
practice</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There has to be more
pressure(muffler tap) to the main tank then there is draw from the
carb in order for this system to work properly. Inertia can effect this
as I stated in one of my other posts. I proved this in my Prophecy that
had the tank higher then the needle valve and when I pressed a hard negative
"g" load it would go lean. At all other attitudes it ran fine, i.e,
uplines, downlines, snaps, positive maneuvers. </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>All up it has its merits but the best is that it reduces the
possibility of picking up air in the main feed line and reducing the possible
lean run or lean burp, something you don't want happening on a turbine or helo
engine. The hopper will reduce the amount of air that enters
the hopper when the main pickup encounters bubbles of
foaming. The hopper pickup will still be in bubbleless fuel
(fairly fuel tank) if the tank is isolated well enough. Jet and helo
guys use then for this reason. The other is if you are trying to
move weight forward for a tail heavy airplane. This makes good use of the fuel
transfer and extra tank instead of adding lead ballast. I think the
bladder tank(like the Tettra) is the best alternative to bubbleless feed and I
am seriously considering using it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne Galligan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Jim_Woodward@beaerospace.com
href="mailto:Jim_Woodward@beaerospace.com">Jim_Woodward@beaerospace.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 13, 2004 7:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: hopper theory &
practice</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>I'll take a stab as why the
hopper tanks work. Liquid may be incompressible, but it is "movable".
The hopper tank has a fuel entry and exit point. Exit point
being the clunk line that goes to the engine, entry point being the vent
line. The hopper tank becomes a reservoir of fuel. Although I
think you can argue that the entry and exit point fuel velocity (or suction
force) is the same, this cannot be said for the middle of the tank were the
suction force is diffused over a larger volumetric cross section. The
image in my mind is a wind tunnel's stilling chamber. I think an
interesting question would be this: How small can a hopper tank be to
still provide the ease of fuel draw we are looking for? Can the hopper
tank be reduced to a section of fuel tubing that is "bubbled"? Would
the "bubble" work is there was a separate entry and exit point like the ven
t and clunk lines of the hopper tank? If the bubble was 5 times larger
than the ID of fuel tubing would it work?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Jim
W.<BR></FONT><BR><BR><BR>
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<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>ronlock@comcast.net</B></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Sent by:
discussion-request@nsrca.org</FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>08/13/2004 08:34 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to discussion</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=Arial size=1>
</FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
To: discussion@nsrca.org,
discussion@nsrca.org</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
cc: Jerry Budd
<jbudd@QNET.COM></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
Subject: Re: hopper
theory & practice</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>Ive been a hopper tank diss-believer for
years. I also wonder why many continue to report benefits.
What's responsible for the benefit?</FONT>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I'm in agreement with Nat, and what
"I think" Jerry has said regarding the fuel system with a FULL hopper tank
being a column of fluid, and the hopper would have no benefit.</FONT>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Maybe hopper serves to eliminate
foaming and bubbles? Do I understand heli pilots use hoppers for that
reason?</FONT>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>In practice do we usually have some
air in the hopper? Or do we usually have a hopper tank that is
flexible? Might we be drawing from the hopper without replenishing
from the main tank during a vertical? Then the hopper gets
replenished during level lines?</FONT>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Still wondering, Ron Lockhart</FONT>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>-------------- Original message
-------------- <BR><BR>> >Matt, <BR>> >With or without the
hopper tank we still have a solid column of <BR>> >incompressible
fluid for gravity and G's to play its tricks on. I <BR>> >contend if
it runs ok with the hopper it will run just as well <BR>> >without.
Nat <BR>> <BR>> Nat, <BR>> <BR>> While not exactly accurate as
stated, your point is well taken. Your <BR>> hypothesis has some merit
when the tank is full, but it falls short <BR>> anytime else (which is
most of the flight). Adding just a small <BR>> amount of air causes the
system to become compressible (just like the <BR>> brakes on your car).
<BR>> <BR>> Jerry <BR>> -- <BR>> ___________ <BR>> Jerry Budd
<BR>> mailto:jbudd@qnet.com <BR>>
===================================== <BR>> # To be removed from this
list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> and follow the
instructions. <BR>> </FONT>
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