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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob, your response goes to the heart of the
conundrum I was asking about. Do most judges take into account that the angle
must appear greater than 45 deg when at the end of the box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here are some thoughts/assertions:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. I would expect it's is common knowledge among
judges/pilots that have actively been flying or judging for at least a couple of
years that the end-of-box 45 deg line should look steeper, however I
doubt even 1% of the participants has scientifically experimented with exactly
what the "steeper" line looks like by having an observer at the end of the box
verify the angle is indeed 45 degrees (or by moving themselves to the end of the
box and watching a correct centered 45 degree line). If my assertion is correct
then most of us are just "shooting from the hip" in guessing if the angle at the
end of the box is really 45 degrees. My perception was established by another
pilot showing me what it should look like, however, after this discussion I'll
get my flying partners to do an experiment to view what it should really look
like.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. At any given contest, including NATS, there is
probably a mixture judges that take into account the angles at the end of the
box should look steeper (regardless of whether they have been told this or not).
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3. The judges "guess" of whether or not the angle
at the end of the box is correct may vary depending on the pilot. For example,
if I'm up the typical Advanced pilot may judge my end of box turn around as too
steep, however if Andre and flies the same angle the same Advanced pilot judging
may think Andre knows better than the judge what the correct angle should look
like and thus assume it is correct.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Result for me, I'll keep flying what I believe is
the "correct" angle which looks steeper and experiment at the field to make sure
I know what the correct angle should look like.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is a very interesting discussion!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob Pastorello</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 22, 2004 12:56
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Some Diagrams & Judging
video</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Andre - agreed - *if* judges are making the
appropriate "correction" as they watch. Of course, since the amount of
correction is different depending on depth of manuever in the box, or height,
seems that it takes a "known" angle (most everyone can ascertain a very
accurate 45 degree line), and turns it into a "I think .... it's a ....
corrected .... -- degree line."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Which then means we have an
additional, and unnecessary subjective decision burden on BOTH pilot and judge
(who's a pilot, anyway).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I think if truth be told - -
and NO offense meant to anyone - - most folks are lookin' for the correct
angle, and NOT "correcting" for
depth/height/distance/perspective.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> But I sure could be wrong
about this, too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=akfai@gci.net href="mailto:akfai@gci.net">Andre Bouchard</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 22, 2004 11:49
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Some Diagrams &
Judging video</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Emphasizing what Steve Maxwell has said,
true geometry must be flown at all times because....the rules do not say:
pull to what will appear to the judge to be a 45 degree line;" they say
"pull to a 45 degree line," meaning a real 45 degree line, etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Andre'
Bouchard</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>