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<P align=left><SPAN class=663471514-21092004><FONT face=Arial>Hi
John,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=left><SPAN class=663471514-21092004><FONT face=Arial>As I read this, a
motor speed controller is just as legal as a motor applied voltage
controller.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=left><SPAN class=663471514-21092004><FONT face=Arial>The following is
excerpted from section 5.1.2 of the Sporting Code:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=left><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </P>
<P align=left>Radio equipment shall be of the open loop type (i.e. no electronic
feedback from the model aircraft to the</P>
<P align=left>ground). Auto-pilot control utilising inertia, gravity or any type
of terrestrial reference is prohibited. Automatic</P>
<P align=left>control sequencing (pre-programming) or automatic control timing
devices are prohibited.</P>
<P align=left>Example:Permitted:</P>
<P align=left>1. Control rate devices that are manually switched by the
pilot.</P>
<P align=left>2. Any type of button or lever control that is initiated and
terminated by the pilot.</P>
<P align=left>3. Manually operated switches to couple control functions.</P>
<P align=left>Not permitted:</P>
<P align=left>1. Snap buttons with automatic timing mode.</P>
<P align=left>2. Preprogramming devices to automatically perform a series of
commands.</P>
<P align=left>3. Auto-pilots for automatic wing leveling.</P>
<P align=left>4. Propeller pitch change with automatic timing mode.</P>
<P align=left>5. Any type of voice recognition system.</P>
<P align=left>6. Any type of learning function involving manoeuvre to manoeuvre
or flight to flight analysis.</P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=663471514-21092004>Thanks for jogging me to give the section a
critical reading,</SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf
Of </B>John Ferrell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 20, 2004 7:50
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Motor Costs
Comparison (more pro-electric)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>I hate to be a party pooper, but a constant speed control loop is not
permitted under the existing FAI Rules as I understand it for our wet engines.
Is it allowable for the dry whiners?</DIV>
<DIV>BTW, I am all for closed loop control devices...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Ferrell <BR><A
href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 20, 2004 12:52
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Motor Costs Comparison
(more pro-electric)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=370124516-20092004>Hi John</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>No fuzzy logic! When the stick moves. something deterministic should
happen!</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=370124516-20092004>I suspect that the existing ESC makers
already have all the hardware needed, as brushless brakes only require an
intentionally retarded commutation timing, while brushed motors require the
additional shorting transistors. But you can never have enough projects
going at once ... eh?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=370124516-20092004>We'll t</SPAN>alk later,</DIV>
<DIV>Dean</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>John Pavlick<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 17, 2004 9:19
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Motor Costs
Comparison (more pro-electric)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400170301-18092004>Dean & Matt,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400170301-18092004> Yes. I forgot to mention the the
"programmability" factor of an electric motor. Whereas a glow motor's
characteristics come from mechanical things (bore, stroke, port timing,
etc.), an electric motor and speed controller can work together to alter
the torque curve. Some speed controls take advantage of this now, but
most people don't realize it. The better speed controls use a non linear
type of output (I'm oversimplifying here) to make the electric motor
"feel" more like a glow motor. I haven't worked much with the brushless
motors but I have a bit of experience with the can motors (from R/C car
racing). It seems like what we need is a speed controller with a P.I.D.
control loop. The currently available ones are one dimensional / open
loop. The throttle stick simply increases or decreases the output of the
motor. The speed controller just changes the PWM duty cycle in direct
response to the stick position. We need some feedback and Fuzzy Logic to
do this right. Dean: If you design the hardware, I'll work on the
code...</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400170301-18092004>
<P>John
Pavlick<BR></P></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>