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<DIV>I fought the pull to canopy on the down line thing with all the
recommended changes, cg shift, incidence change, down thrust and could not get
it out completely and ended up with about 3% elevator to throttle
idle mix and now I have a great flying
airplane. Sometimes tuning out the one tendency can affect
other more important conditions. Seems there are a lot more people out
there that do the same thing. They just wont admit it. Since I got back in
the pattern arena it has been the consensus that an airplane be built with no
mixing. As much as I agree with this philosophy I tend to lean toward the
what ever it takes to fly good strategies since I am not about to completely
redesign an already built airplane. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Lance the mix I have does not effect the overall flying characaristics
enough to have to push the stick an unwanted amount. So far the
airplane hasn't complained.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Smooth FLying...</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Wayne Galligan</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=csl@direcway.com href="mailto:csl@direcway.com">Chris Larson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: 5 Steps to Trimming a
Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=875491004-29112004>I have been using this mix in practice the
last couple weeks ( practicing Intermediate and trying to learn the Advanced
sequence ) and it has helped me tremendously. It does not take
much. I P-mixed in 3 degrees of down elevator at high idle, and the
downlines on stall turns, humptys, etc, are arrow straight with no
input. </SPAN><SPAN class=875491004-29112004>I notice it a little on the
spin entry but can't say as though it helps me there. I am
usually trying so hard to stall the plane, I am using more "down" to push the
nose up ( plane is inverted ). I do also notice it slightly at landing, but
its extremely easy to compensate for.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=875491004-29112004>Aircraft is a Typhoon 2 + 2, with OS 1.60,
fyi.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>Chris Larson<BR>L & D Sales<BR>209-274-2176 Office /
Fax<BR>209-304-0865 Cellular </DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 28, 2004
8:01 PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to
Trimming a Pattern Plane<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT id=role_document
face=Arial color=#000000>
<DIV>
<DIV>If I read both your commentaries correctly, the elevator mix
when at idle, to help eliminate the up pitch of the down line, should
also help the inverted spin entries. Particularly on a nose heavy plane (or
one with considerable pos incidence), it seems to me that down elv mix
at idle should help both conditions. What did i miss?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/28/2004 9:34:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dszczur@maranatha.net writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Lance, thanks very much for the comments.
Bottom line is do what ever it takes to make the plane fly the way you
want it to. Mechanical, or electronic, or both. The vertical
stab helps to stabilize in neg spin entry, and because I fly nose heavy, I
don't feel the extra down mix in a spin entry. Now, realize I
don't have very much mix in... so that is less of an
overall factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Don</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:patterndude@comcast.net
href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">Lance Van Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 26, 2004
1:14 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to Trimming a
Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Don,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Clearly this works for you, but I am still
unconvinced. Wouldn't more pos incidence in the wing, to assist
spin entries, only work for upright spins? FAI has inverted spins,
and this should work in the opposite direction. Same goes for the
Throttle/Elv mix. When you reduce throttle to enter the spin, the elv
mix that was put in for downlines might affect your spin approach.
And when the spin entry is inverted you'll have to really get on the
down elv to maintain level approach. I guess it can work, but it
seems like its introducing factors that make the pilot begin to fly
against the mix.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:dszczur@maranatha.net
href="mailto:dszczur@maranatha.net">Don Szczur</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 22, 2004
10:29 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to Trimming
a Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Lance, incidence may take care of pitch or roll,
but not always. In fact, I found that changing wing
(panel) incidence has the most dramatic impact on slow flight,
such as entries to a spin. CG and wing balance also
play some part in this mix. The electronic mixing takes care
of what incidence changes, (wing warping, etc.) will not address
in a down line, or, if you choose to just electronically dial out the
tendency.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Cheers!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=Arial>Don</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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