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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dszczur@maranatha.net href="mailto:dszczur@maranatha.net">Don
Szczur</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 03, 2004 10:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to Trimming a
Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Well, let me clarify about the spin entries... I think things got
mixed up in the discussions and I digressed. I had aileron mix in with
down elevator mix. I thought about it some more.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now, before I changed wing incidence, I mixed in some
right aileron with low throttle. This kept the wings (and plane)
tracking straight in a spin entry (particularly inverted spin entries, since
at the time it was tough putting in left rudder when approaching the spin
entry). Even my 1995 Typhoon needed this, although I did not do any
incidence change at that time, I just did the idle to aileron mix. I
think I remember doing a mix condition on my Dr. Jekyll so that with the
gear up, and on high rate, the mix would go in (elevator). That way the
elevator trim would not change on landing approach from what I was used
to. I remember now that I also used to put in 1/8 inch left rudder trim
activated with high rate switch for the spin entry. This would keep it
from "breaking" to the right... but again, I digress...The issue with the
idle-to-aileron mix- I found that the wings would (very slowly, like 5 degrees
to the right) drift at/during the bottom of a pull out. Example
would be at the bottom of a square loop, as the plane pulls out of a vertical
down line to horizontal, (going fast) the plane would roll slightly right as
its going fast...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So I discovered in 2003 the one application that I have
effectively used negative wing incidence, but only on the left
wing. Specifically speaking, all of my planes that I've flown in
the last 5 years required about 1/8 inch negative incidence in the left
wing, sometimes more.. This included two generation of ARF's, one
professionally built plane, and another one (plus my TOC plane). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So the left wing neg incidence requires right aileron trim for straight
and level cruise speed flight, and as the plane slows down that right
aileron trim takes over, resulting in a nice straight, stable spin entry
(either inverted or upright).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here is a story. During the first couple of flights on my pro built
FOCUS 1 1/2, I was ready to throw it in the trash because with the
throttle to aileron mix it would be comical to watch. I'd be in stright
flight at full throttle and then I'd quickly cut the throttle to idle. The
plane would do a slow roll to about 45 degrees right. If I reduced
the aileron mix so that down lines were fine, then it would not
be enough throttle to aileron mix for a good spin entry. Needless to say
I just started aggressively cranking in the adjusters on the left
wing and after the left wing smashed into the top of the left landing
gear strut (making a nice 1/16 inch indent in the bottom of the wing) the
plane flew like magic. I screamed with joy. It flew to win the
NATS.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>OK, buy me an ice cream cone at the next NATS for that tip.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Don</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 28, 2004 11:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to Trimming a
Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>If I read both your commentaries correctly, the elevator mix
when at idle, to help eliminate the up pitch of the down line, should
also help the inverted spin entries. Particularly on a nose heavy plane (or
one with considerable pos incidence), it seems to me that down elv mix
at idle should help both conditions. What did i miss?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/28/2004 9:34:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dszczur@maranatha.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lance, thanks very much for the
comments. Bottom line is do what ever it takes to make the plane fly
the way you want it to. Mechanical, or electronic, or both. The
vertical stab helps to stabilize in neg spin entry, and because I fly nose
heavy, I don't feel the extra down mix in a spin entry. Now,
realize I don't have very much mix in... so that is less of an
overall factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:patterndude@comcast.net
href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">Lance Van Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 26, 2004
1:14 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to Trimming a
Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Clearly this works for you, but I am still
unconvinced. Wouldn't more pos incidence in the wing, to assist
spin entries, only work for upright spins? FAI has inverted spins,
and this should work in the opposite direction. Same goes for the
Throttle/Elv mix. When you reduce throttle to enter the spin, the elv
mix that was put in for downlines might affect your spin approach.
And when the spin entry is inverted you'll have to really get on the
down elv to maintain level approach. I guess it can work, but it
seems like its introducing factors that make the pilot begin to fly
against the mix.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:dszczur@maranatha.net
href="mailto:dszczur@maranatha.net">Don Szczur</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 22, 2004
10:29 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 5 Steps to Trimming
a Pattern Plane</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lance, incidence may take care of pitch
or roll, but not always. In fact, I found that changing wing
(panel) incidence has the most dramatic impact on slow flight,
such as entries to a spin. CG and wing balance also
play some part in this mix. The electronic mixing takes care
of what incidence changes, (wing warping, etc.) will not address
in a down line, or, if you choose to just electronically dial out the
tendency.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Don</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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