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<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>Jerry,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>I have no problem with a dead slow snap, as
long as all the elements are there.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>An outside snap at the top of an inside loop
may be very slow, if the plane is decellerated to near the level flight stall
speed, at the top.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>If you do a snap at just above landing
speed, how fast is the rotation? Relatively slow, I'll bet.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>Not zeroed, but downgraded. 1 point per 15
for the extra yaw, and a downgrade for loss of
smoothness/gracefulness.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>The snap itself may be violent, but the
approach and departure should be graceful.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=137421122-29122004>Regards,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf
Of </B>Jerry Voth<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:21
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Displacement
during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>How would you judge a snap that meets all the criteria that has been
mentioned in this thread that constitutes a good snap but takes almost a full
second to complete?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I also was at the T.O.C. when the guy that won used opposite rudder just
prior to his vertical snaps-as I recall it was a very quick move. Wouldn't
they be zeroed using the current thinking because the initial break was
sideways before the up break?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>kJerry</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:10
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Displacement during snap
rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>After re-reading the post, it occurred
to me I should clarify:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>I was writing about what I thought a
good standard might be.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>For right now, the book is it, and as
Bob pointed out, there is no specific track downgrade.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>Anyone have an IAC judges' guide handy?
I'm curious.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>By the way, the full scale guys do
horrible things to snaps, including completely unstalling the plane
(particularly during consecutive snaps).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>That don't make it right!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>Archie has a good point, not only
does the standard need to be better nailed down, but some
people may never be trained to "see fast". </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>Add in some "tired from 4 hours in the
chair" and you have mush.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004>This is a good discussion!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323240221-29122004><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dean Pappas <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Dean Pappas<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 29, 2004
1:15 PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
quiet?)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>Hi All,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>before I crawl back to the lab ... and
see what's on the slab ...</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>While I agree that some displacement
is inevitable, I wouldn't want to see a rule that says that if you
don't see any, then it's not a snap.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>The very best high energy snaps will
displace so little that it will be really hard to say that it's
there.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>1) My guess would be that most
really good snaps probably displace about 1/2 wingspan, both up and
to the side.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>Gravity will possibly kill any
evidence of the UP part. Try doing an inside snap from inverted, or
try a snap from knife edge. You'll see the UP displacement! </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>2) As the elevator throw is reduced,
from that needed to do a good snap, the airplane displaces worse and
worse, as it takes longer for the plane to stall deeply enough, to make
little enough lift to continue changing the airplane's course
appreciably.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>3) If the elevator throw is further
reduced, the displacement goes away! Hmm.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>4) Leading the elevator reduces the
necessary amount of throw, for a good snap. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>Here's the aesthetic question behind
the argument:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>Do we all agree that when you see a
snap with an "in your face" break that it really is a thing of
beauty?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>Or do some of us think it's untidy,
and not"on a line"? I had a judge ask me (back in '91) "What's with the
twitch before the snap?"</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=217444617-29122004>I'm as confused as anybody. I guess
that's as good a way to start the new year as any.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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