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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I have to agree with you Dean. A stall is
caused by the separation of airflow from the wing upper surface resulting in a
rapid decrease in lift regardless of airspeed , flight attitude or weight. The
problem we face is what happends when from a staight flight 0, 1 or 2 deg. for
given airplane or airspeed to critical 17, 18+ deg. Climbs or displaces thru the
time that it takes to go thru 2,3,4 to 15 deg.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken Velez</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:19
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Displacement during snap
rolls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>Hi
Archie,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>That
just isn't true. A stall is not an on/off switch deal. It progresses over a
range of angles of attack,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>and
the autorotative tendency of the plane both comes and goes as the plane
increases angle of attack.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004>Stalled does not mean zero lift! The center of
gravity will and must wobble some in a snap. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004>Because the plane does not go from flying to stalled
instantaneously, there will be a displacement of
the</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>CG
both to the top of the plane, </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>and to the side being
snapped, assuming a positive snap.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>We
need to write a standard for what is acceptable. I remember 1/2 wingspan in an
old IAC judges' guide,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>but
I need to look it up, as the last time I saw one of those was nearly 20 years
ago.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>I was one of those </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>FAI judges at
the NATs, and we were not looking for a "VERY clean break", to quote you ...
we were just looking and hoping to see one, at all !</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>You have to see a change in pitch. If
you don't see one, or if the pilot treats you to a change in yaw before,
the rolling starts,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>then
you have been presented with what I like to call a twinkle roll. That's not a
snap. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=219435714-29122004>Things are busy here, at work today, so
this is a short note, about a long subject, but I feel the need to throw
my two cents in.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004>Later,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=219435714-29122004> Dean</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Archie Stafford<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 29, 2004
9:57 AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
quiet?)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Last year at the
NATS the biggest thing they were looking for was the break. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You really had to show a VERY clean
break.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The rule book doesn’t
specify how much break, but it was obvious last year that you really had to
show a VERY clean break, even on the avalanches, which is very tough to do
at the top of a loop and give a good break, or in FAI the snap at the bottom
of the loop. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I talked to Andrew
<SPAN class=SpellE>Jesky</SPAN> as well and he said the FAI judges were
being the same <SPAN class=GramE>way,</SPAN> the you really had to show a
very definite break.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think the key to
the displacement is how much rudder is in the snap.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>From my experience if you have too
much rudder the plane will displace from one side or the other.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You can take out some of the rudder
and still have a truly stalled maneuver.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You use the elevator to stall the
aircraft.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I do have a
question though.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>How can an
aircraft be “semi-stalled?”<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Either the aircraft is stalled or it isn’t.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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