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<DIV>Bob, I have a hard time believing we are planning a
maneuver that needs more power than the OS160FX can deliver. Which I
think is your engine of Choice and the cheapest 2M power choice I have
found. The newer 2M ARF's and ARC's are costing me no more new than a used
Prophesy was. Looking forward to my Focus2 with OS160FX and APC 3 blade;
but I think the Excelleron90 with TS120 will work until I finish the
re-build.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Randy</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob Pastorello</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snap rolls </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The more you add complex, power-hungry elements to the vertical maneuvers
(or angular center manuevers), in Masters... the more you broaden the gap
created by "equipment". Or said another way, the result of these types
of additions only forces MORE expensive equipment choices.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>To broaden interest, and sustain long term flyers, should we not consider
equipment costs ALSO as we consider sequence designs?</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:28
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snap rolls </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>Interesting regarding snap speed Ron. I believe a Pattern model snap
can be slowed down and can be easier to judge that way. I slowed my 1 1/2
snaps of the last masters Ava down so I know it can be done. At the same
time, I was rewarded by some and zeroed by another at the Nats. Why? not
violent enough (verbatim one judge's opinion). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Making up rules as we go isn't a good thing. Be that as it may, Judging
as a craft has come a long way and is better than it ever has been. But
still some way to go. I am not concerned though; I think we are headed in
the right direction.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I also don't want these maneuver types removed from AMA Pattern
schedules. And let's definitely put them in more visible locations. How
about a center Snapping Square or Fig M or N? Or Humpty? The 45 dowline snap
in the old masters was a good one too. How about a center Two Snaps in a 45
upline? But I am reluctant to reduce Kfactor tho. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 12/30/2004 12:00:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ronlock@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
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<DIV>Agreed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When our pattern judging hats are on, it's not our task to
figure out if the model design is such that it doesn't show a
break, or isn't set up to show a break, or isn't flown with technique to
show a break. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We judge maneuver elements as best we can without making
allowances for model limitations that might be perceived or claimed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Judging snaps is tough, in part because it happens so
fast. I recall seeing a dozen snaps by full scale AT-6 Texans
- the snaps were slow and most pattern judges would be able to judge them
accurately and consistently.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Given the speed of a model snap, getting accurate and consistent
judging remains a big challenge. Lets continue looking for
improvements in judge training, lets design schedules with fewer snaps,
lets put the snaps in visible locations.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't want to see snaps removed from AMA, if they stay in
F3A. Masters class- is, can, and should be, a step
on the way to F3A for those moving on.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A thought for discussion- might we put a lower K-Factor on maneuvers
with snaps in AMA schedules? They remain for pilot
challenge and judge training, but the impact of imperfect judging is
reduced.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Later, Ron Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>Wait a minute, we are not talking about flying Pattern with
Decathlons and Cubs. Pattern models are supposed to be
"thoroughbred" designs. We have very few limits as to what we
actually design in. On the other hand, Scale models don't have
that "free to design as you please" luxury. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pattern planes have no excuses. I see no reason the desired
features can't be designed in to facilitate desired outcome.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 12/29/2004 5:10:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
d.pappas@kodeos.com writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN class=928250622-29122004>Thanks Doug.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=928250622-29122004>And yet we know that the full
scale guys' snaps happen in geologic time, compared to
us!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=928250622-29122004>Imagine the plight of diving
judges.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=928250622-29122004>Maybe the solution is to
"wimp-out" the snap description, and allow anything that looks like a
train wreck ...
NAAAAAH!</SPAN></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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