<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7>
<DIV>Not so sure that's necessary, Bob. To see the ugly, just watch my
snaps. <BG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob Pastorello</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 31, 2004 6:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Description Re: Snap rolls
(MK clipped for repost)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I know... I didn't put the <VBG> after that and meant to.</DIV>
<DIV>Interesting how the subtle differences in how we describe the same thing
can introduce misunderstanding.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Someone else had suggested a visual to use....Maybe we need an artist to
do some simple sketches to illustrate the good, the bad, and the ugly of
"snaps" ??</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Description Re: Snap rolls
(MK clipped for repost)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>Can't really do that Bobby. The Snap itself is but an element in a
larger maneuver. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Yaw Induced displacement in flight path" OR Lateral displacement in
flight path" is better verbiage, I agree. That's what was meant</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 12/30/2004 9:46:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, <A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Good suggestion, Matt. But I think it's important to clarify
and differentiate "Yaw" displacement (which I interpret as angular
deviation in yaw) form "Track displacement" (which I propose to be the
overall "sideways" shift of the track of the CG that occurs as a result of
the snap).</DIV>
<DIV> To me, those are two different animals; I
say NO angular yaw offset permitted, but lateral TRACK displacement
okay...up to how much may be a hair to split by those so inclined.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Personally, I think we change the Snap scoring to 0 or 10, and be
done with it.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
title=mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
title=http://www.rcaerobats.net/
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net/">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 30, 2004
7:40 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Description Re: Snap rolls
(MK clipped for repost)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>I agree Ed, snaps are not that hard to define. And it isn't hard to
describe the judging. Several of us (Dean, Dave and Earl to name 3) have
tried to do exactly that and all have done a pretty good job. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What has been hard, at least the last three times the Snap subject
has come up, is to get consensus. Well, forget consensus, try common
ground. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let's take a different approach and try to add to the existing
description. The existing description includes the following,:</DIV>
<DIV>1- starts with definite break in pitch attitude.</DIV>
<DIV>2- stalled maneuver</DIV>
<DIV>3- tail inscribes cone</DIV>
<DIV>4- CG continues on same flight path as prior
to entry.</DIV>
<DIV>5- there are several rulebook things that will zero the
maneuver</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now for some adders:</DIV>
<DIV>1- should any displacement in yaw be allowed before downgrading?
How much displacement? Personally I think less than half wingspan (3
feet) is reasonable buffer. (Forget about design differences in Pattern.
It's a thorougbred event and designers should have all parameters
optimized)</DIV>
<DIV>2- how much displacemnt in pitch should be allowed before
downgrading? Again I think less than half wing span (3 feet) is
reasonable</DIV>
<DIV>3- how about snap rate? slower, more graceful vs faster, more
violent snap- should it be a judged criterion? I believe that fast
snaps and slow snaps should have equal footing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Not specifically an adder per se', what about KFactro for
these maneuver types, as Ron suggested earlier? Personally, I don't
think a change is warranted but is worth looking into to see where folks
stand.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I challenge all who wrote to the earlier thread, to put their
creative caps back on and help nail down the snap's description
more definitely. Add to my list or start your own. Then lets put it all
together and propose it to the Contest Board. IF it passes, then help
spread the word to all who are not online.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>