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Mark:<br>
That's a good way of doing it--set up a range of total K-Factors
allowable for each class. Take a set of "allowed" maneuvers; put them
together until the number of maneuvers desired has the desired total
K-Factor. Doesn't have to be exact; just close enough for pattern
work!<G><br>
Of course, other things must be considered also, flow, etc. but it's a
good starting point to get the difficulty needed for a specific class.<br>
Bill Glaze<br>
<br>
Atwood, Mark wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midF8676F58A0C4494997A6FD9D4CF484221D5C83@mailhost.paragon-inc.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that's what I'm espousing... A set of semi-rigid guidelines that anyone could easily follow to create a new pattern for a particular class.
There are a lot of ways to accomplish this without having to identify specific manuevers and which class they'd be elibible for (although that would work too). Set up the K-factor "range" for each class, min and max. Then establish guidelines as I suggested below, that would dictate the type and complexity of elements.
As I said...I think this is needed to make an annex system work.
You're VERY correct regarding the difficulty of voting for sequences as a group. If we the contest board strongly object to a particular class sequence...we were forced to throw out the whole group. Sort of throwing out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</a>]On Behalf Of Marty King
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:33 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a>
Subject: RE: Sequence Poll Results
Mark,
That would be fine as long as there were a set of
basic guidelines for each class so that the
progression aspect is not lost. I would much rather
see each class submitted as individual proposals too,
that way we would not get shot down for everything
(401,402,403 & 404) just because 402 was not liked by
the contest board. It would be great if we could have
a catalog like IMAC, however, they need it to be
"real" when it comes to mimicing IAC and FAI which
schedule changes yearly in full scale. We do not have
that driving force behind us. The best that I think we
could do is have several on-going committees working
on new sequences. We can approach it from two sides as
a group NSRCA and as individuals from within the
group.
Marty
--- "Atwood, Mark" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com"><atwoodm@paragon-inc.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Just to pose the question...'cause I haven't been
involved in the sequence process in the past...
I would think that sequences could be developed for
each class "stand alone"...using some predefined
ideas to maintain the level of difficulty. This
would eliminate the requirement of voting in an
entire schedule of sequences all or nothing. I know
this was a problem the last time around...that many
wanted one ADV sequence...without the associated
Masters...etc.
For example... Intermediate Schedules would contain
only certain elements, and be limited in K-Factor.
Looping elements, stalls, standard rolls, limit of
one inverted segment, etc.
Advanced would introduce rudder elements... Point
rolls, slow rolls, extended inverted segments,
positive snaps and spins.
Masters would be somewhat unlimited, introducing
more multi-element maneuvers (obviously adv. would
have some too), complex rolling segments, sustained
inverted sequences, an over all "busier" pattern.
These are pretty "loose" definitions, but I think if
we were to better define the atributes of a each
class...sequences would be both easier to create,
and would be more consistent to their purpose.
Also, this (I believe) would be the type of
guideline that the AMA would want to see to endorse
an annex scenario...
My .02
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</a>]On Behalf Of
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tony@radiosouthrc.com">tony@radiosouthrc.com</a>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:06 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a>
Subject: Re: Sequence Poll Results
Marty:
What has been done in the past is for the NSRCA
officers to select several
groups of members to work together to write new
sequences. Since we use
them as stepping stones, each group should write
schedules for ALL CLASSES
(except of course FAI). This is so they can make
sure the jump between
classes is not too easy and not too hard.
Once results are received from each group, each
group can post them in the
K-Factor for a vote by the membership. If two or
three groups do this, the
membership will have several choices.
Of course, any member can submit a new schedule to
the AMA as well. So, if
you are not asked to serve on one, you can still
participate by designing
them and sending them in.
I would also recommend that you get a couple of
people to fly them once they
are designed to see how they flow...
Tony Stillman
Radio South
3702 N. Pace Blvd.
Pensacola, FL 32505
1-800-962-7802
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com">www.radiosouthrc.com</a>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty King" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mking46516@yahoo.com"><mking46516@yahoo.com></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><discussion@nsrca.org></a>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Sequence Poll Results
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Eric and all,
I for one welcome change after 2-3 years. This
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">next
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">cycle will put those of us flying Intermediate at
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">5
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">years for the same pattern. I think one reason
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">that
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the lower three classes hasn't had anything done
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">yet
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">is the lack of knowledge in how to go about
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">designing
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">sequences and submitting a proposal. I for one
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">would
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">do it if I had someone to coach me along. We need
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">help
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">from someone like you Eric, Ron, Tony or the rest
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">of
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">you Masters and FAI fliers to come up with or give
some suggestions on sequences that are progressive
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">up
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to Masters and explain how to go about presenting
these. I think with help I could come up with an
Intermediate schedule but to make these
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">progressive
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Intermediate needs to be built on Sportsman and
Advanced built on Intermediate with Masters as an
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">end
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">point for now. I have said several times in this
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">forum
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that the jump between Intermediate and Advanced is
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">big of step without preparing us for outside snaps
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">by
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">allowing us to do inside ones first. The first
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">snaps
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">we get are in Advanced and that just should not be
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">this day and age. Even in Sportsman a climbing 45
degree inside snap is within the reach of the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">average
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">everyday sport flyer. I also think adopting snaps
earlier would help in judging the higher classes
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">where
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">more complicated snap maneuvers are flown. It is
easier to judge a maneuver you can fly and be
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">judged
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">on yourself.
So if anyone is willing to give me a hand or tell
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">me
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">how to go about this I will step up to the plate
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">and
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">do this.
Marty
NSRCA 2551 D-4
--- Grow Pattern <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net"><pattern4u@comcast.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ref: Ron wrote. " One particular thing I'm
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">talking
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">about, is the wishes of those in the lower
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">classes
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to have more frequent schedule changes.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Completely
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">disregarded by the powers in charge of such
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">things,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">those of us in that category felt, at least in
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">case of several I have spoken with, a
disenfranchisement. Kind of a "why bother?
Nobody's really listening." The constant refrain
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">of
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">those in charge of such things seems to be "well,
those classes are transitory in nature; why
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">should
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">we bother with changes." "The flyer in
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Intermediate
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">this year, will be in Advanced next year". This
faulty thinking,...."
The data was gathered in the last NSRCA survey
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">that
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">change was desired. The change could then be
proposed in this current cycle. Is anyone running
with this ball? or What has happened since then?
Just asking,
Eric.
Question-8
Should the Sportsman class be changed
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">periodically
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">YES = 142____ NO = 39_____
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">RESULT =
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">PASS ____
Question-9
If "YES =", these classes should change, should
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">they
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">70___ Change every rule cycle (3 years) - WINNER
43___ Change every other rule cycle (6 years)
26___ Other - Specify ____
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->=== message truncated ===
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