[From nobody Mon Jan 3 18:12:34 2005 Return-path: <Rcmaster199@aol.com> From: Rcmaster199@aol.com Full-name: Rcmaster199 Message-ID: <6.3bb35b62.2f0b6314@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:10:12 EST Subject: Re: Sequence Poll Results To: geobet@gis.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1104808212" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5004 -------------------------------1104808212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to me that Earl is right. It's a moot point In the US (and many other countries) we are lucky to have pattern competition in ever increasing levels of difficulty. When a competitor has reached some level of profficiency and feels compelled to compete for the World stage, he or she only needs to do it. We have no other requiremnts imposed. The question in my mind is, are prep levels really necessary? If one is driven enough and focused enough, No! There are countries out there that do not have such progression in skill requirements. Often it's only a handful of pilots available and it's either F3A or nothing. Well, just fun flying I suppose. Point is they don't need anything special to compete in F3A--just desire. They do it to the best of their ability. And they have a bunch of fun doing it. It occasionally is that way here also and I would bet that those that want to compete at the F3A level will, regardless of earlier prep. It helps, obviously. But what really helps is the exposure to competition. And in that regard, AMA classes 401-404 serve the function of prep for F3A just fine. But each class stands on its own. Those that want to go to F3A after any of these classes, are free to do so. If memory serves, Jason Shulman moved to F3A comp after kicking everybody's butt in ADVANCED. No Expert, Expert TA or Masters. Is F3A the TOP class, or "Destination" class or whatever you want to call it? Does it really matter? MattK Earl Haury wrote: I think this "top class" issue is of little value and, at best, semantics. One could argue that, as AMA pattern class 404 is Masters and AMA pattern 406 is F3A, F3A is at the top of AMA progression. Mark's point that we have as much influence in F3A as any other country is not only valid - many of the F3A "innovations" have come from USA reps to the FAI CIAM F3A Subcommittee. I also assure you that a sequence provided by "us" will not only receive as much consideration as any other, but be quite welcome. Our pattern community worldwide is small, why on earth would we want to be only a subset? BTW - does anyone have a feel for the total number of pattern competitors worldwide, I suspect that the US may be in the minority. Sure, we should and do have preparatory classes. These may become resident classes for folks prevented from moving forward by any number of limiting factors, but that's a fact of life - not reason to tailor these classes to that end. One of the strongest attractions for model aviation is diversity. Likewise, excess diversity is a weakness of model aviation. We too quickly "invent" new disciplines to accommodate each and every interest with the effect of diluting our core groups. If one considers most sports, many folks participate at playground, high school, college, and pro levels with fewer at each level as the requirements take a toll. But the "top" level is clearly recognized and emulated, there may be concessions to detail, difficulty, equipment at the early levels - but the top level clearly is the goal. I find it sad that some consider that the NSRCA should ignore F3A, rather the NSRCA should drive the US interests in F3A. The NSRCA was founded by the top F3A competitors of the time and there was no expectation that it was exclusive of F3A, unfortunately they didn't recognize the need to spell that out in the charter. Pattern is our game, anything that interests folks in pattern competition is very good, discussion of pattern details is good, F3A is the epitome of our game, but I find it hard to criticize anything related to the enjoyment of pattern. Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: _Bob Pastorello_ (mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net) To: _discussion@nsrca.org_ (mailto:discussion@nsrca.org) Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Sequence Poll Results -------------------------------1104808212 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20= Arial"=20 bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol= e_document=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2> <DIV> <DIV>It seems to me that Earl is right. It's a moot point</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>In the US (and&nbsp;many other countries) we are lucky to have pattern=20 competition in ever increasing levels of difficulty. When a competitor has=20 reached some level of profficiency and feels compelled to compete for the Wo= rld=20 stage, he or she only needs to do it. We have no other requiremnts imposed.=20= The=20 question in my mind is, are prep levels really necessary? If one is driven=20 enough and focused enough, No!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>There are countries out there that do not have such progression in skil= l=20 requirements.&nbsp;Often it's only a handful of pilots available and&nbsp;it= 's=20 either F3A or nothing. Well, just fun flying I suppose. Point is they don't=20= need=20 anything special to compete in F3A--just desire. They&nbsp; do it to the bes= t of=20 their ability. And they have a bunch of fun doing it.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>It&nbsp;occasionally is&nbsp;that way here also and I would bet that th= ose=20 that want to compete at the F3A level will, regardless of earlier prep. It=20 helps, obviously. But what really helps is the exposure to competition. And=20= in=20 that regard, AMA classes 401-404 serve the function of prep for F3A just fin= e.=20 But&nbsp;each class stands on its own.&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Those that want to go to F3A after any of these classes, are free to do= so.=20 If memory serves, Jason Shulman moved to F3A comp after kicking everybody's=20= butt=20 in ADVANCED. No Expert, Expert TA or Masters.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Is F3A the TOP class, or "Destination" class or whatever you want to ca= ll=20 it? Does it really matter?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>MattK</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2> <P>Earl Haury wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20 <STYLE></STYLE> &nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>I think this "top class" issue=20= is of=20 little value and, at best, semantics. One could argue that, as AMA patte= rn=20 class 404 is Masters and AMA pattern 406 is F3A, F3A is at the top of AM= A=20 progression.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Mark'= s point=20 that we have as much influence in F3A as any other country is not only v= alid=20 - many of the F3A "innovations" have come from USA reps to the FAI CIAM=20= F3A=20 Subcommittee. I also assure you that a sequence provided by "us" will no= t=20 only receive as much consideration as any other, but be quite=20 welcome.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Our patte= rn=20 community worldwide is small, why on earth would we want to be only a=20 subset? BTW - does anyone have a feel for the total number of pattern=20 competitors worldwide, I suspect that the US may be in the minority. Sur= e,=20 we should and do have preparatory classes. These may become resident cla= sses=20 for folks prevented from moving forward by any number of&nbsp; limiting=20 factors, but that's a fact of life - not reason to tailor these classes=20= to=20 that end.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>One of t= he=20 strongest attractions for model aviation is diversity. Likewise, excess=20 diversity is a weakness of model aviation. We too quickly "invent" new=20 disciplines to accommodate each and every interest with the effect of=20 diluting our core groups. If one considers most sports, many folks=20 participate at playground, high school, college, and pro levels with few= er=20 at each level as the requirements take a toll. But the "top" level is=20 clearly recognized and emulated, there may be concessions to detail,=20 difficulty, equipment at the early levels - but the top level clearly is= the=20 goal.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>I find it sa= d that=20 some consider that the NSRCA</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 size=3D-1>should ignore F3A, rather the NSRCA should drive the US intere= sts in=20 F3A. The NSRCA was founded by the top F3A competitors of the time and th= ere=20 was no expectation that it was exclusive of F3A, unfortunately they didn= 't=20 recognize the need to spell that out in the charter. Pattern is our game= ,=20 anything that interests folks in pattern competition is very good,&nbsp;= =20 discussion of pattern details is good, F3A is the epitome of our game, b= ut I=20 find it hard to criticize anything related to the enjoyment of=20 pattern.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 size=3D-1>Earl</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;----- Original Message -----=20 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER= -LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>= From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmailto:rcaerobob@cox.net href=3D"mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">= Bob=20 Pastorello</A></DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dmailto:discussion@nsrca.org=20 href=3D"mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 02, 2005=20= 11:00=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Sequence Poll=20 Results</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> -------------------------------1104808212-- ]