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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That has been my experience with those I have
helped with flying the snap the first time. Sounds like it was a great time. I
think I might try something like that at our contest Apr 30. Terry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=flyintexan@houston.rr.com
href="mailto:flyintexan@houston.rr.com">Mark Hunt</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:47
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re:
[SPAM] Re: Annex proposal - development</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The snap was done very well by several of the
pilots. Nobody over-rotated to the point that they became inverted or in
a bad situation. Because it was an unknown, it was a first (snap) for
several of the pilots whose aircraft were not really setup to snap hard, but
they managed it very well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There were several 0's handed out on the unknown,
but many of them were due to poor calling!!! LOL. Calling
an unknown sequence (seen only an hour in advance) was almost as hard as
flying it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-mark</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tbrox@cox.net href="mailto:tbrox@cox.net">Terry Brox</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:39
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM]
Re: Annex proposal - development</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Mark,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> How
was the snap handled? I dont fly that class, but was very disappointed when
the snap was voted out of Intermediate again. I pesonally don't believe
it is as difficult as 3 rolls in the old intermediate schedule.
Terry</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=flyintexan@houston.rr.com
href="mailto:flyintexan@houston.rr.com">Mark Hunt</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 05, 2005
8:14 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Annex
proposal - development</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sorry to go back a bit on the discussion of
changing sequences.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When we held our little 402 grudge
match, we decided to spice up the last round by having an unknown.
We left the design of the sequence up to our good friend Mr. Don Ramsey
and of course, we were all very nervous (yet excited) about what
he might throw at us. I believe the sequence was posted some time
ago, but here it is again:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Takeoff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stall Turn w/ 1/4 up and down, exit upright
(C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Immelman w/ 2/4, exit upright
(T)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Reverse Triangle Loop, exit upright
(C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bunt, no rolls, exit inverted
(T)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Square loop w/ 1/2 roll on top, exit upright
(C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Humpty Bump, 1/4 up and down, exit upright
(T)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Top Hat w/ 1/2 rolls in verticals, exit
upright (C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Figure 9, 1/2 roll up, pull over top, exit
upright (T)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2/4 point roll, exit inverted (C)<BR>Figure 9
(mid start), push over top, 1/2 roll down, exit inverted (T)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Double immelman, 12 roll on top, no roll out,
exit upright (C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Half square with 1/2 roll up, exit upright
(T)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>45 deg. downline, one positive snap, exit
upright (C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Landing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all thought we were going to die when
looking at it on paper...inverted exits???? However, after seeing it
flown and actually flying it, it flowed quite nicely. By the time
that round was over, many of us chose to try flying it a second and
third time for fun....because....it was fun. The elements that need
to be learned in whatever class can be applied to any sequence
constuction, as long as the sequence itself is still in the abilities of
that class of flyer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would prefer to see sequence changes
occasionally, whether I ever make to FAI or not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Mark</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com
href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 05, 2005
7:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: Annex proposal
- development</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>gentlemen:<BR>I believe you are really on to
something here; a complete organization that can, by action proof,
handle it's own affairs will require much less "supervision" than if it
is perceived as being inconsistent. I don't feel that the
organization has been ill-served by it's leadership; quite the opposite,
in fact. I believe we've been very fortunate to have those folks
whose names have been at the top of the letterhead.<BR>But, I believe
it's time to take a look at what's been mentioned here in a new context;
one of proving our ability to handle all things "in-house" Good
thinking.<BR><BR>Bill Glaze<BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid20050105163325.IEFR16431.lakermmtao05.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I have to agree.... my thoughts have been along similar lines since the last Annex effort was made. My belief- based only on understanding organizations - is that the AMA leaders may be more easily persuaded if they can CLEARLY see that WE (the Pattern Community - NSRCA and NON-NSRCA alike) have a structured, consistent process to ferret out sequence changes, etc.
Consistent, repeatable processes are key to keeping everyone on the same page, also.
I REALLY believe a LOT could be done by us defining and organizing our processes a bit; providing known structure builds trust and confidence in the process.
Bob Pastorello
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">From: "Grow Pattern" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net"><pattern4u@comcast.net></A>
Date: 2005/01/05 Wed AM 11:16:06 EST
To: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><discussion@nsrca.org></A>
Subject: Annex proposal - development
If we could ever get away from the lost cause of trying to wrest control
away from the AMA, we could perhaps get to the real need to have a schedule
development system with an annex of maneuvers, a hand picked team of
schedule designers, a test process, a review process and an NSRCA members
poll.
I hate re-inventing the wheel when a clearly defined NSRCA process would
show the AMA we can do the job as the pattern society. The emphasis is on a
clearly defined process, not "This is what we did last time" etc. if it is
clearly defined then the pattern community can join in.
Annex processes include items such as adding and subtracting maneuvers,
rating them - K-factors. Standards, or better still just guidelines, for the
mix of maneuvers in a schedule. Total K-factors are a good start but we are
primitive at best in the way we set about this stuff. Especially when it is
core to the sport!
Regards,
Eric.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Atwood, Mark" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com"><atwoodm@paragon-inc.com></A>
To: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><discussion@nsrca.org></A>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Annex proposal
Ron,
I would argue that with all the deadlines imposed by the AMA's rule cycle,
that their 2 year cycle is effectively a 4 year one. It's almost to the
point that rules need to be submitted for the next cycle before this one's
even begun.
While I agree that changes more than once every two years is not really
needed...the annex would give us a lot more time and freedom to make changes
more rapidly. Also..it gives us much more certain control. As it sits
now...if a sequence is submitted...there is no gaurantee it will be
accepted...putting us out another 2 years before we can try again.
-Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:02 AM
To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
Subject: Re: Annex proposal
On Jan 5, 2005, at 8:37 AM, <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:randy10926@comcast.net">randy10926@comcast.net</A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">maybe it's time to dust it off and re-submit it. Maybe more contest
board members will attend and vote. It sounds like a good idea to try
and rework this before all the scedules are submitted.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap="">My original plan for the annex proposal was for NSRCA to have control
over an annex containing the maneuver descriptions and maneuver
schedules, so that we could change maneuver schedules when we wanted to
and not be limited by AMAs three-year rule change cycle. AMA refused
to even accept that proposal and, consequently, did not allow the
contest board to vote on it. The second proposal gave AMA veto power
over the maneuvers and maneuver schedules. It failed because a contest
board member, who would have voted YES, forgot to vote in time.
Then AMA announced they were going to a two-year rules cycle, obviating
one of the reasons for the annex proposal. Since it's unlikely that
we'd want to change maneuver schedules every year, AMA's rule change
cycle change gave us a lot of what we wanted with the annex system
except control over them. Since AMA is unlikely to relinquish control
over the maneuver schedules, submission of a new annex proposal
wouldn't give us much we don't already have.
Ron Van Putte
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">-------------- Original message --------------
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">On Jan 5, 2005, at 6:45 AM, Joe Lachowski wrote:
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> >
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">It might have passed if it was written and ironed out before the
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > > proposal was submitted. It probably would have had a much better
> > chance. The competition board would have at least had something to
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">work with in making their decision.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> >
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">That's not true. The only way AMA would have accepted an annex
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > proposal was if AMA had veto power over the maneuver schedules. The
> original proposal did not have that. The second proposal did give
AMA
> veto power, but didn't pass because one contest board member didn't
> vote.
>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Ron Van Putte
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> >
</PRE><PRE wrap=""> > >> From: "Del Rykert"
> >> Reply-To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: Annex proposal
> >> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 06:07:35 -0500
> >>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">It was tried to implement but shot down Terry.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > >>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">del
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > >>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Brox
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > >> To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:44 PM
> >> Subject: Annex proposal
> >>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">What is the real or perceived problem with the Annex system. I am
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > >> not an IMAC flier, but it looks like it works well for them.
> >> I don't want to start a war here, but I am not sure why one would
> >> have a problem with a system that could help alleviate the
problems
> >> associated with our current system. Lets hear both sides.
> >> Respectfully Terry Brox
> >
> >
> > =================================================
> > To access the email archives for this list, go to
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap=""><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/">http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > > To be removed from this list, go to
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap=""><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm">http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > > and follow the instructions.
> >
>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">=================================================
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> > To access the email archives for this list, go to
</PRE>
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
Bob Pastorello, El Reno, OK, USA
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A>
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