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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Eric,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Well, okay, you pulled me out of the shadows. I'm dead set
against an unknown in the finals for a variety of reason. Bob Pastorello just
rattled off a bunch of them in another post so I'll try not to repeat those.
Most Masters pilots could do a credible job in FAI with practice. This is not to
say that a Masters finalist would likely be an FAI finalist because I don't
think they would. By the same token, I don't think we'd be at the bottom of the
heap, either. However, the one common thread I hear again and again among
Masters pilots is a lack of the time required to become competitive with two
separate schedules. In addition, there's a couple of big differences between
flying the finals and flying the prelims. In no particular order, the judging is
more consistent, there's no distraction from midair close calls, there's more
pressure and so on. Combined, these things can both help and hurt the contestant
with the main effect being that flying in the finals is very different than
flying in the prelims. Leave the unknowns and/or finals schedules for those
pilots that choose to fly in that environment and that environment is FAI. I
don't see any benefit in tinkering with something that's not broken. If
anything, it'll prevent those that don't have the preparation time from
showing up in the first place.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne Koester</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pattern4u@comcast.net href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net">Grow
Pattern</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Archie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
I am particularly interested in what you say because as a person who actually
attends the Nat's, you are therefore well positioned to have and
entertain new ideas. As a person who makes it to the finals you are both
experiential and a potential who would fly this stuff. You are more than
just a theorist. How do other ex-finalist think?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The subject heading says unknowns not
impossibles....The maneuvers would not (be intended to) be more
difficult. Just stringing them together would be difficult to sort the
finalists out...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,<BR><BR>Eric.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcpattern@comcast.net href="mailto:rcpattern@comcast.net">Archie
Stafford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:47
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think you can fly
unknowns and also make them very precise and smooth. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Look at the FAI finals.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Other than the roller I think the
sequence flowed very well and the top pilots made it look like they had been
flying it for a long time.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Even
if you used past sequences or rearranged the current sequence. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I do not think this
makes it a “team” event with the caller. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Most pilots have the callers they
generally use and that person usually knows when the person they are calling
for likes to hear the next maneuver. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Also if you use maneuvers that have
been previously used or maneuvers that are reasonably well known then you
shouldn’t have a judging problem. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If this is going to be used at the
NATS finals, then the judging is usually reasonably good anyway. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m sure there will be varying
opinions on that, but for the most part judging in the finals is overall
very good. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The better pilots
are going to make an unknown sequence look smooth and precise no matter how
many times they have flown it. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think unknowns definitely help you
determine who the best pilot is. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Pastorello<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:40
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I guess since I never take a
position on anything, I should probably do so on this -- so -- here
'tis.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. This is a genuine
yes/no POLL question of the MASTERS pilots only....and needs to be carefully
administered, IF the Board is interested in opening this
one.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. If the POLL has at
least 2/3 majority, then the next question should be designed to find
out how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about having our scores judged by
JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE and
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. How crazy we are about
the totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence of the "team".
At this level of competitions (you guys are talking about the NATS FINALS,
for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed to say it will be "fair" to have
the outcome determined by who had the best caller (or the most
effective team). Not everyone can do that... and finally
....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4. MASTERS is supposed to
be the Top AMA class....as such, philosophically, I think it should be the
best - the VERY best - of precision, smoothness, and
gracefulness....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">AND implementing an Unknown
turns all that back into "IMPRESSION"
judging....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm not in favor of it;
won't be; won't try to persuade others to be; and believe wholeheartedly
that if a pilot is strongly committed to flying Unknowns that he go play
IMAC. Then fly "Pattern" for precision, practiced, smooth and
skillfully-executed "routines".</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA
46373<BR><A href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=divesplat@yahoo.com href="mailto:divesplat@yahoo.com">Ed Deaver</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Thursday, January 06, 2005 3:54 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
AMA MASTER'S unknown?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Flying an Unknown truely does make it a 2 person
flight. I would still welcome the opportunity as the challange and
thrill(flying well or goofing up and trying to collect yourself to fly the
next manuever) is really great. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't know if it really identifies the callers
ability, as much as the teams ability. Another thought depends on
how much time is allowed to prepare
also.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">ed<BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">rcaerobob@cox.net</SPAN></I></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Before I'd answer whether I wanted one or not,
I'd like to have an understanding of what, specifically, the unknown in
Masters would "reveal". If pattern is about precision piloting that
could be a different thing than an ability to have a good
caller....<BR><BR>Just my ignorant opinion.<BR><BR>Bob P.<BR>>
<BR>> From: "Grow Pattern" <BR><PATTERN4U@COMCAST.NET>> Date:
2005/01/06 Thu AM 11:25:48 EST<BR>> To: <FLYINTEXAN@HOUSTON.RR.COM>,
<BR>> <BR><DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG>> Subject: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?<BR>> <BR>> How does this list feel about a Masters Nat's
final that was different to <BR>> the regular schedule. OR, even an
unknown in the final to make it more than <BR>> just three more of
the same flown in the heats.<BR>> <BR>> Regards,<BR>> <BR>>
Eric.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>