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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Amazing isn't it? I love turn around style much
more so than the old AMA style. Guess I'm still thinking about the feeding into
the FAI class thread.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=edbon85@charter.net href="mailto:edbon85@charter.net">Ed Miller</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005 3:12
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>No, instead the pattern ships of old have been
replaced with 30 to 40 lb ships at 120 db that either fly in the next county
or hover for 15 minutes in the middle of the runway. Progress is a wonderful
thing : )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed M.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005 3:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Darn good thing too. In the past 10 years I've belonged to about
8 different clubs in NJ. 10 years ago, 1 or 2 of the fields/clubs may
have been able to support and tolerate pre-turnaround pattern. Today,
none of them would support old style AMA pattern - the 110 mph planes with
huge overfly requirements and the 105 db engines creating a huge noise
footprint.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart<BR><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since FAI turn around was started we've
geared our entire sport in the USA to mimic it and it's been driven by FAI
ever since . </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005 1:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks Gene,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>As I mentioned before: we have, as a culture, a tendency to keep
making each skill level harder or more interesting until it breaks, then
we fix it and start over again. Maybe you have to have been in the event
for ever to see it, but I think you have put your finger right on what
Masters ought to be.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Anybody out there remember old D-Novice?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean Pappas</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>gene.maurice@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005
12:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA
MASTER'S unknown?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">To Whom It May
Concern:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I am a Masters flier
and I DON'T want to fly FAI or FAI like sequences. For me personally,
Masters is a destination. If I wanted to fly finals and unknowns, then
I would fly FAI. I fly Masters and will stay in Masters because I
don't want to, nor can I for that matter, effectively fly the FAI
sequences. If people want more challenge than Masters affords, I would
respectfully suggest that they consider flying FAI. Again, for me
personally, the difficulty of the current and prior Masters
sequences are all that I can handle, and even then I'm a perennial
bottom feeder. Why in the world do we need two classes that are
for all intents and purposes equal? <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I believe there is a
fair contingent of fliers who are like me: good enough to fly
their current class without embarrassing themselves, not good enough
to ever win, their lives only allow a minimal amount of practice, but
continue to do this because IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!!!. Why must we
continually tinker with Masters. Don’t get me wrong, I like the
periodic change in the schedules. I don’t even mind the ever
increasing difficulty, even though it has made me even LESS
competitive. Again, I submit, if you are not sufficiently challenged
by Masters, FLY FAI!!! <o:p></o:p></P> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Gene Maurice
<BR>gene.maurice@comcast.net <BR>Plano, TX</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob:<BR><BR>I am not taking any sides
here either, as I don't fly Masters. However, If Masters is to
be an ending class paralleling FAI, then perhaps either a finals
sequence, or a finals and unknown are appropriate. This puts
it on the same level as FAI which is what many have told me they
thought Masters should be. This will give the same level of
difficulty as FAI, but with all the associated rules and sequences
totally controlled by the USA. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Having been USA Team Manager 4 times, I
totally agree that the caller becomes an integral part of a
successful pilot, especially in the unknowns. Having a known
finals sequence is less demanding on the caller, but requires the
Masters pilot to learn a second, much more difficult sequence.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keep in mind that this would only
effect the NATS. I would push for a rule that makes flying the
finals sequence at a local contest illegal! This is the way it
is in FAI as well. Finals and unknowns are only flown at
National and International competitions. This keeps everyone
who has no interest in flying at a Nationals from having to learn
anything other than the Masters pattern. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A poll would be interesting, but I
would only allow those that have flown at the last couple of NATS to
be involved, pushing the rule that any extra sequences would only be
flown at the NATS finals. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, my $0.02...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio South<BR>3702 N. Pace
Blvd.<BR>Pensacola, FL 32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com/">www.radiosouthrc.com</A></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob
Pastorello</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06,
2005 5:39 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I guess since I never take a position
on anything, I should probably do so on this -- so -- here
'tis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. This is a genuine yes/no
POLL question of the MASTERS pilots only....and needs to be
carefully administered, IF the Board is interested in opening this
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. If the POLL has at least 2/3
majority, then the next question should be designed to find
out how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about having our scores
judged by JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE and
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3. How crazy we are about the
totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence of the
"team". At this level of competitions (you guys are talking
about the NATS FINALS, for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed
to say it will be "fair" to have the outcome determined by who had
the best caller (or the most effective team). Not
everyone can do that... and finally ....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>4. MASTERS is supposed to be
the Top AMA class....as such, philosophically, I think it should
be the best - the VERY best - of precision, smoothness, and
gracefulness....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AND implementing an Unknown turns all
that back into "IMPRESSION" judging....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not in favor of it; won't
be; won't try to persuade others to be; and believe wholeheartedly
that if a pilot is strongly committed to flying Unknowns that he
go play IMAC. Then fly "Pattern" for precision, practiced,
smooth and skillfully-executed "routines".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net/">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=divesplat@yahoo.com
href="mailto:divesplat@yahoo.com">Ed Deaver</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06,
2005 3:54 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Flying an Unknown truely does make it a 2 person
flight. I would still welcome the opportunity as the
challange and thrill(flying well or goofing up and trying to
collect yourself to fly the next manuever) is really
great. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't know if it really identifies the callers ability,
as much as the teams ability. Another thought depends on
how much time is allowed to prepare also.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ed<BR><BR><B><I>rcaerobob@cox.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Before
I'd answer whether I wanted one or not, I'd like to have an
understanding of what, specifically, the unknown in Masters
would "reveal". If pattern is about precision piloting that
could be a different thing than an ability to have a good
caller....<BR><BR>Just my ignorant opinion.<BR><BR>Bob
P.<BR>> <BR>> From: "Grow Pattern"
<PATTERN4U@COMCAST.NET><BR>> Date: 2005/01/06 Thu AM
11:25:48 EST<BR>> To: <FLYINTEXAN@HOUSTON.RR.COM>, <BR>>
<DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Subject: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?<BR>> <BR>> How does this list feel about a
Masters Nat's final that was different to <BR>> the regular
schedule. OR, even an unknown in the final to make it more
than <BR>> just three more of the same flown in the
heats.<BR>> <BR>> Regards,<BR>> <BR>>
Eric.</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK!
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