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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ron:<BR>Or, you were flying one of those
sorry engines that quit on you all the time!!!
<VBG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio South<BR>3702 N. Pace
Blvd.<BR>Pensacola, FL 32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com">www.radiosouthrc.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vanputte@cox.net href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005 2:33
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>On Jan 7, 2005, at 2:14 PM, Earl Haury wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Hmmm - actually the old
D-Novice flew FAI schedules (similar to Masters) and D-Expert flew the same
schedules but was the F3A class of the day. Interestingly, C-Novice and
C-Expert were parallel AMA classes - but were rarely flown due to the touch
& go in the schedules. F3A was the "favorite" schedule back then - same
story - different preferences. BTW, the B class (similar to advanced) got to
do the touch & go - lots of fun with retracts and wood props.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ah yes, I remember it
well. As I recall, the Touch and Go was the first maneuver after Takeoff and
was often the last maneuver, when it became a Touch and Stay, after the prop
hit the runway and/or the retracts failed.<BR><BR>Ron Van Putte<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>----- Original Message
-----<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger><?/x-tad-bigger><B><?x-tad-bigger>From:<?/x-tad-bigger></B><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>Tim Taylor<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>To:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>discussion@nsrca.org<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Sent:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Friday, January 07, 2005 12:38 PM<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Subject:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Since
FAI turn around was started we've geared our entire sport in the USA to
mimic it and it's been driven by FAI ever since . <?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>-----
Original Message -----<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger><?/x-tad-bigger><B><?x-tad-bigger>From:<?/x-tad-bigger></B><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>Dean Pappas<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>To:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>discussion@nsrca.org<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Sent:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Friday, January 07, 2005 1:05 PM<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Subject:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
RE: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param 0000,0000,FFFF><?smaller>Thanks
Gene,<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param 0000,0000,FFFF><?smaller>As
I mentioned before: we have, as a culture, a tendency to keep making each
skill level harder or more interesting until it breaks, then we fix it and
start over again. Maybe you have to have been in the event for ever to see
it, but I think you have put your finger right on what Masters ought to be.<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param 0000,0000,FFFF><?smaller>Anybody
out there remember old D-Novice?<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param 0000,0000,FFFF><?smaller>Dean
Pappas<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR> <BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>Dean
Pappas<?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>Sr. Design
Engineer<?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>Kodeos
Communications<?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>111
Corporate Blvd.<?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>South
Plainfield, N.J. 07080<?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>(908) 222-7817 phone<?/fontfamily>
<BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>(908) 222-2392 fax<?/fontfamily>
<BR><?fontfamily><?param Times New Roman>d.pappas@kodeos.com<?/fontfamily>
<BR><?smaller>-----Original Message-----<?/smaller><BR><B><?smaller>From:<?/smaller></B><?smaller>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>gene.maurice@comcast.net<?/smaller><BR><B><?smaller>Sent:<?/smaller></B><?smaller>
Friday, January 07, 2005 12:49
PM<?/smaller><BR><B><?smaller>To:<?/smaller></B><?smaller>
discussion@nsrca.org<?/smaller><BR><B><?smaller>Subject:<?/smaller></B><?smaller>
Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<?/smaller><BR><BR><BR>To Whom It May
Concern:<BR><BR>I am a Masters flier and I DON'T want to fly FAI or FAI like
sequences. For me personally, Masters is a destination. If I wanted to fly
finals and unknowns, then I would fly FAI. I fly Masters and will stay in
Masters because I don't want to, nor can I for that matter, effectively fly
the FAI sequences. If people want more challenge than Masters affords, I
would respectfully suggest that they consider flying FAI. Again, for me
personally, the difficulty of the current and prior Masters
sequences are all that I can handle, and even then I'm a perennial bottom
feeder. Why in the world do we need two classes that are for all
intents and purposes equal? <BR><BR> <BR><BR>I believe there is a
fair contingent of fliers who are like me: good enough to fly their
current class without embarrassing themselves, not good enough to ever win,
their lives only allow a minimal amount of practice, but continue to do this
because IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!!!. Why must we continually tinker with
Masters. Don’t get me wrong, I like the periodic change in the schedules. I
don’t even mind the ever increasing difficulty, even though it has made me
even LESS competitive. Again, I submit, if you are not sufficiently
challenged by Masters, FLY
FAI!!!<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>--<BR>Gene
Maurice<BR>gene.maurice@comcast.net<BR>Plano, TX<BR> <BR>--------------
Original message
--------------<BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Bob:<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>I
am not taking any sides here either, as I don't fly Masters. However,
If Masters is to be an ending class paralleling FAI, then perhaps either a
finals sequence, or a finals and unknown are appropriate. This puts it
on the same level as FAI which is what many have told me they thought
Masters should be. This will give the same level of difficulty as FAI,
but with all the associated rules and sequences totally controlled by the
USA. <?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Having
been USA Team Manager 4 times, I totally agree that the caller becomes an
integral part of a successful pilot, especially in the unknowns.
Having a known finals sequence is less demanding on the caller, but requires
the Masters pilot to learn a second, much more difficult sequence. <?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Keep
in mind that this would only effect the NATS. I would push for a rule
that makes flying the finals sequence at a local contest illegal! This
is the way it is in FAI as well. Finals and unknowns are only flown at
National and International competitions. This keeps everyone who has
no interest in flying at a Nationals from having to learn anything other
than the Masters pattern. <?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>A
poll would be interesting, but I would only allow those that have flown at
the last couple of NATS to be involved, pushing the rule that any extra
sequences would only be flown at the NATS finals. <?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Anyway,
my $0.02...<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR> <BR>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio
South<BR>3702 N. Pace Blvd.<BR>Pensacola, FL 32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE>www.radiosouthrc.com<?/color><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>-----
Original Message -----<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger><?/x-tad-bigger><B><?x-tad-bigger>From:<?/x-tad-bigger></B><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>Bob Pastorello<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>To:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>discussion@nsrca.org<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Sent:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:39 PM<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Subject:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>I
guess since I never take a position on anything, I should probably do so on
this -- so -- here 'tis.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>1.
This is a genuine yes/no POLL question of the MASTERS pilots only....and
needs to be carefully administered, IF the Board is interested in opening
this
one.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>2.
If the POLL has at least 2/3 majority, then the next question should
be designed to find out how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about having
our scores judged by JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE and<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>3.
How crazy we are about the totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence
of the "team". At this level of competitions (you guys are talking
about the NATS FINALS, for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed to say it
will be "fair" to have the outcome determined by who had the
best caller (or the most effective team). Not everyone can do
that... and finally ....<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>4.
MASTERS is supposed to be the Top AMA class....as such, philosophically, I
think it should be the best - the VERY best - of precision, smoothness, and
gracefulness....<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>AND
implementing an Unknown turns all that back into "IMPRESSION" judging....<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>I'm
not in favor of it; won't be; won't try to persuade others to be; and
believe wholeheartedly that if a pilot is strongly committed to flying
Unknowns that he go play IMAC. Then fly "Pattern" for precision,
practiced, smooth and skillfully-executed "routines".<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA
199 AMA 46373<BR><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE>rcaerobob@cox.net<?/color><BR><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE>www.rcaerobats.net<?/color><BR> <BR> <BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>-----
Original Message -----<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger><?/x-tad-bigger><B><?x-tad-bigger>From:<?/x-tad-bigger></B><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>Ed Deaver<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>To:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?x-tad-bigger>discussion@nsrca.org<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger>
<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Sent:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Thursday, January 06, 2005 3:54 PM<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Subject:<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>
Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><BR><BR>Flying an
Unknown truely does make it a 2 person flight. I would still welcome
the opportunity as the challange and thrill(flying well or goofing up and
trying to collect yourself to fly the next manuever) is really
great. <BR> <BR>I don't know if it really identifies the callers
ability, as much as the teams ability. Another thought depends on how
much time is allowed to prepare
also.<BR> <BR>ed<BR><BR><B><I>rcaerobob@cox.net</I></B>
wrote:<BR>Before I'd answer whether I wanted one or not, I'd like to have an
understanding of what, specifically, the unknown in Masters would "reveal".
If pattern is about precision piloting that could be a different thing than
an ability to have a good caller....<BR><BR>Just my ignorant
opinion.<BR><BR>Bob P.<BR>><BR>> From: "Grow Pattern"<BR>> Date:
2005/01/06 Thu AM 11:25:48 EST<BR>> To: ,<BR>><BR>> Subject: AMA
MASTER'S unknown?<BR>><BR>> How does this list feel about a Masters
Nat's final that was different to<BR>> the regular schedule. OR, even an
unknown in the final to make it more than<BR>> just three more of the
same flown in the heats.<BR>><BR>> Regards,<BR>><BR>>
Eric.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>