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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Verne,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2> Maybe you
underestimate your achievements on behalf of us long-tooths :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yeah, I confess, it was a typo...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>E.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne Koester</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 9:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Eric,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I think you meant GOOD perspectives. GOD perspectives
come from FAI..... ;>)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pattern4u@comcast.net href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net">Grow
Pattern</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 9:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Verne,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2> God
perspectives - Thank you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eric.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne
Koester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:27
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Eric,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Well, okay, you pulled me out of the shadows. I'm
dead set against an unknown in the finals for a variety of reason. Bob
Pastorello just rattled off a bunch of them in another post so I'll try
not to repeat those. Most Masters pilots could do a credible job in FAI
with practice. This is not to say that a Masters finalist would likely be
an FAI finalist because I don't think they would. By the same token, I
don't think we'd be at the bottom of the heap, either. However, the one
common thread I hear again and again among Masters pilots is a lack of the
time required to become competitive with two separate schedules. In
addition, there's a couple of big differences between flying the finals
and flying the prelims. In no particular order, the judging is more
consistent, there's no distraction from midair close calls, there's more
pressure and so on. Combined, these things can both help and hurt the
contestant with the main effect being that flying in the finals is very
different than flying in the prelims. Leave the unknowns and/or finals
schedules for those pilots that choose to fly in that environment and that
environment is FAI. I don't see any benefit in tinkering with something
that's not broken. If anything, it'll prevent those that don't have
the preparation time from showing up in the first place.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne Koester</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pattern4u@comcast.net href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net">Grow
Pattern</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005
7:00 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Archie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
I am particularly interested in what you say because as a person who
actually attends the Nat's, you are therefore well positioned
to have and entertain new ideas. As a person who makes it to the finals
you are both experiential and a potential who would fly this stuff. You
are more than just a theorist. How do other ex-finalist
think?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The subject heading says unknowns not
impossibles....The maneuvers would not (be intended to) be more
difficult. Just stringing them together would be difficult to sort the
finalists out...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,<BR><BR>Eric.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcpattern@comcast.net
href="mailto:rcpattern@comcast.net">Archie Stafford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005
6:47 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think you
can fly unknowns and also make them very precise and smooth. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Look at the FAI finals.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Other than the roller I think
the sequence flowed very well and the top pilots made it look like
they had been flying it for a long time.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Even if you used past
sequences or rearranged the current sequence. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I do not
think this makes it a “team” event with the caller. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Most pilots have the callers
they generally use and that person usually knows when the person they
are calling for likes to hear the next maneuver. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Also if you use maneuvers that
have been previously used or maneuvers that are reasonably well known
then you shouldn’t have a judging problem. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If this is going to be used at
the NATS finals, then the judging is usually reasonably good anyway.
<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m sure there will be
varying opinions on that, but for the most part judging in the finals
is overall very good. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The better
pilots are going to make an unknown sequence look smooth and precise
no matter how many times they have flown it. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think unknowns definitely
help you determine who the best pilot is. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob
Pastorello<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:40 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I guess since I never take
a position on anything, I should probably do so on this -- so --
here 'tis.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. This is a genuine
yes/no POLL question of the MASTERS pilots only....and needs to be
carefully administered, IF the Board is interested in opening this
one.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. If the POLL has
at least 2/3 majority, then the next question should be designed
to find out how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about having our scores
judged by JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE and
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. How crazy we are
about the totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence of the
"team". At this level of competitions (you guys are talking
about the NATS FINALS, for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed to
say it will be "fair" to have the outcome determined by who had the
best caller (or the most effective team). Not everyone can
do that... and finally ....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4. MASTERS is
supposed to be the Top AMA class....as such, philosophically, I think
it should be the best - the VERY best - of precision, smoothness, and
gracefulness....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">AND implementing an
Unknown turns all that back into "IMPRESSION"
judging....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm not in favor of
it; won't be; won't try to persuade others to be; and believe
wholeheartedly that if a pilot is strongly committed to flying
Unknowns that he go play IMAC. Then fly "Pattern" for precision,
practiced, smooth and skillfully-executed
"routines".</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA
46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message
----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=divesplat@yahoo.com href="mailto:divesplat@yahoo.com">Ed
Deaver</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Thursday, January 06, 2005 3:54
PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Flying an Unknown truely does make it a 2
person flight. I would still welcome the opportunity as the
challange and thrill(flying well or goofing up and trying to collect
yourself to fly the next manuever) is really great.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't know if it really identifies the
callers ability, as much as the teams ability. Another thought
depends on how much time is allowed to prepare
also.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">ed<BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">rcaerobob@cox.net</SPAN></I></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Before I'd answer whether I wanted one or
not, I'd like to have an understanding of what, specifically, the
unknown in Masters would "reveal". If pattern is about precision
piloting that could be a different thing than an ability to have a
good caller....<BR><BR>Just my ignorant opinion.<BR><BR>Bob
P.<BR>> <BR>> From: "Grow Pattern"
<BR><PATTERN4U@COMCAST.NET>> Date: 2005/01/06 Thu AM 11:25:48
EST<BR>> To: <FLYINTEXAN@HOUSTON.RR.COM>, <BR>>
<BR><DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG>> Subject: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?<BR>> <BR>> How does this list feel about a Masters
Nat's final that was different to <BR>> the regular schedule.
OR, even an unknown in the final to make it more than <BR>>
just three more of the same flown in the heats.<BR>> <BR>>
Regards,<BR>> <BR>>
Eric.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>