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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>No, instead the pattern ships of old have been
replaced with 30 to 40 lb ships at 120 db that either fly in the next county or
hover for 15 minutes in the middle of the runway. Progress is a wonderful thing
: )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed M.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005 3:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Darn good thing too. In the past 10 years I've belonged to about 8
different clubs in NJ. 10 years ago, 1 or 2 of the fields/clubs may have
been able to support and tolerate pre-turnaround pattern. Today, none of
them would support old style AMA pattern - the 110 mph planes with huge
overfly requirements and the 105 db engines creating a huge noise
footprint.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart<BR><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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Original message -------------- <BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since FAI turn around was started we've geared
our entire sport in the USA to mimic it and it's been driven by FAI ever
since . </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07, 2005 1:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks Gene,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>As I mentioned before: we have, as a culture, a tendency to keep
making each skill level harder or more interesting until it breaks, then
we fix it and start over again. Maybe you have to have been in the event
for ever to see it, but I think you have put your finger right on what
Masters ought to be.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Anybody out there remember old D-Novice?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=562050218-07012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean Pappas</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>gene.maurice@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January
07, 2005 12:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">To Whom It May
Concern:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I am a Masters flier and
I DON'T want to fly FAI or FAI like sequences. For me personally,
Masters is a destination. If I wanted to fly finals and unknowns, then I
would fly FAI. I fly Masters and will stay in Masters because I don't
want to, nor can I for that matter, effectively fly the FAI sequences.
If people want more challenge than Masters affords, I would respectfully
suggest that they consider flying FAI. Again, for me personally, the
difficulty of the current and prior Masters sequences are all
that I can handle, and even then I'm a perennial bottom feeder. Why
in the world do we need two classes that are for all intents and
purposes equal? <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I believe there is a fair
contingent of fliers who are like me: good enough to fly their
current class without embarrassing themselves, not good enough to ever
win, their lives only allow a minimal amount of practice, but continue
to do this because IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!!!. Why must we continually
tinker with Masters. Don’t get me wrong, I like the periodic change in
the schedules. I don’t even mind the ever increasing difficulty, even
though it has made me even LESS competitive. Again, I submit, if you are
not sufficiently challenged by Masters, FLY FAI!!!
<o:p></o:p></P> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Gene Maurice
<BR>gene.maurice@comcast.net <BR>Plano, TX</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob:<BR><BR>I am not taking any sides
here either, as I don't fly Masters. However, If Masters is to
be an ending class paralleling FAI, then perhaps either a finals
sequence, or a finals and unknown are appropriate. This puts it
on the same level as FAI which is what many have told me they thought
Masters should be. This will give the same level of difficulty
as FAI, but with all the associated rules and sequences totally
controlled by the USA. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Having been USA Team Manager 4 times, I
totally agree that the caller becomes an integral part of a successful
pilot, especially in the unknowns. Having a known finals
sequence is less demanding on the caller, but requires the Masters
pilot to learn a second, much more difficult sequence.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keep in mind that this would only effect
the NATS. I would push for a rule that makes flying the finals
sequence at a local contest illegal! This is the way it is in
FAI as well. Finals and unknowns are only flown at National and
International competitions. This keeps everyone who has no
interest in flying at a Nationals from having to learn anything other
than the Masters pattern. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A poll would be interesting, but I would
only allow those that have flown at the last couple of NATS to be
involved, pushing the rule that any extra sequences would only be
flown at the NATS finals. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, my $0.02...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Tony Stillman<BR>Radio South<BR>3702 N. Pace Blvd.<BR>Pensacola,
FL 32505<BR>1-800-962-7802<BR><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com/">www.radiosouthrc.com</A></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob
Pastorello</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06,
2005 5:39 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I guess since I never take a position
on anything, I should probably do so on this -- so -- here
'tis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. This is a genuine yes/no POLL
question of the MASTERS pilots only....and needs to be carefully
administered, IF the Board is interested in opening this
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. If the POLL has at least 2/3
majority, then the next question should be designed to find out
how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about having our scores judged by
JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE and </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3. How crazy we are about the
totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence of the
"team". At this level of competitions (you guys are talking
about the NATS FINALS, for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed to
say it will be "fair" to have the outcome determined by who had the
best caller (or the most effective team). Not everyone
can do that... and finally ....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>4. MASTERS is supposed to be the
Top AMA class....as such, philosophically, I think it should be the
best - the VERY best - of precision, smoothness, and
gracefulness....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AND implementing an Unknown turns all
that back into "IMPRESSION" judging....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not in favor of it; won't be;
won't try to persuade others to be; and believe wholeheartedly that
if a pilot is strongly committed to flying Unknowns that he go play
IMAC. Then fly "Pattern" for precision, practiced, smooth and
skillfully-executed "routines".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net/">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=divesplat@yahoo.com href="mailto:divesplat@yahoo.com">Ed
Deaver</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06,
2005 3:54 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Flying an Unknown truely does make it a 2 person
flight. I would still welcome the opportunity as the
challange and thrill(flying well or goofing up and trying to
collect yourself to fly the next manuever) is really great.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't know if it really identifies the callers ability, as
much as the teams ability. Another thought depends on how
much time is allowed to prepare also.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ed<BR><BR><B><I>rcaerobob@cox.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Before
I'd answer whether I wanted one or not, I'd like to have an
understanding of what, specifically, the unknown in Masters
would "reveal". If pattern is about precision piloting that
could be a different thing than an ability to have a good
caller....<BR><BR>Just my ignorant opinion.<BR><BR>Bob
P.<BR>> <BR>> From: "Grow Pattern"
<PATTERN4U@COMCAST.NET><BR>> Date: 2005/01/06 Thu AM 11:25:48
EST<BR>> To: <FLYINTEXAN@HOUSTON.RR.COM>, <BR>>
<DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Subject: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?<BR>> <BR>> How does this list feel about a
Masters Nat's final that was different to <BR>> the regular
schedule. OR, even an unknown in the final to make it more than
<BR>> just three more of the same flown in the heats.<BR>>
<BR>> Regards,<BR>> <BR>>
Eric.</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK!
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