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<DIV>
<DIV>A couple more thoughts on the subject: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>First,</STRONG> the issue of judging Finals (knowns and unknowns
alike): Having judged Masters Nats and F3A Nats and Team Selection
Finals, I found it was easier for we judges to have a
competent caller amongst us, calling the maneuver to us. This was a person
separate from the pilots' caller, speaking softly as to not distract the pilot.
But when we didn't have a caller, it wasn't that bad. The demo flights before
the round started served as good refreshers as to what the shapes looked
like. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some of us had not seen the F knowns flown before, let alone the unknowns.
As an F3A Finals judge, you do what you can to familiarize yourself with the
sequence. If you're chosen to judge, you already know how (elements,
presentation, positioning, distance, S and G, etc, not belaboring the
obvious).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Second</STRONG>, regarding Masters unknowns: Judging will be a
little trickier because our pool of competent judges is still rather small, and
F3A uses 10 already. Less are needed for Masters which is a good thing.
With a demo flight, this shouldn't be that bad for pilots and judges alike.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Finalist F3Aers can do the F sequences and unknowns sequences (of their
choosing) and I believe Masters Finalists can also. Do they need to? NO THEY
DON"T. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But, it wasn't that long ago that Masters was not only able, they were
REQUIRED to choose their own schedules from the Masters list of maneuvers. There
was a maximum K Factor, and that was the only guide line. Not only that, but
they could change their schedules from round to round if they chose. After all
they were MASTERS PILOTS AND IT WAS <STRONG><EM>THE TOP
CLASS</EM></STRONG>. The ability to choose was the rite of passage, and
some moved there with that mind set. Was it interesting? Yup, without a doubt.
This was before TA and scoring programs and the like. Should we retuurn to that
way of doing business? It would be much harder to do it
administratively, so, NO, probably not! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, I do find it strange that MASTERS pilots in general, appear to be
saying that it would be too complicated so lets not even bother. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Third</STRONG>, does it have to be an unknown? NO. It could just be
a Finals known sequence that is different than the Prelim schedule. I favor this
actually over an unknown. The Final sequence in my view, would be reduced in
maneuver number but increased in complexity. Putting snaps aside for a minute, I
see nothing wrong with loop-roll combinations for example. Same thing for a
rolling circle, (but not crazy as in the F05 schedule). One roll circles or two
roll circles are very pretty maneuvers and a great deal of fun to do, and don't
use up half the county. These maneuver types are hard to do with precision, but
that's the whole point. They are separator maneuvers. Again, what becomes harder
is the administration.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Fourth</STRONG>, what problem would be solved? I'll answer it with
a question: are we (Masters pilots)happy with status quo? Same ol' same old is a
good thing? If yes, then the whole discussion is moot. If no, then
lets change it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:31:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Ed_Alt@hotmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well, after flying Scale Aerobatics,
AKA IMAC for 7 or 8 years, from Sportsman through Unlimited, I guess I'm
not very excited about introducing unknowns into Pattern. On the one
hand, it does add some interest. On the other hand, it introduces so
many variables that it can really screw up an event and adversely affect the
outcome. If the desire here is to turn Pattern into a contest of who can
best memorize new sequences on the fly, who won't crack under the
pressure and simply brain fart their way into a few zeros, then this is a
great idea.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So if we do this, the sequences have to be well
designed, there has to be a uniform standard to apply to construct the
sequences and there has to be a way to get the judges ready to properly
judge them. They are unknowns for them as well. So even if we have
a flight line full of steely eyed flyers who can memorize and repeat a new
sequence flawlessly, the quality of the judged outcome can really suffer if
you do not assure that the judges are rehearsed for the unknowns.
Sometimes at the IMAC Nats, the judges would be treated to a demo flight
before the unknowns in the finals round. Sometimes not. BTW, they have a
new unknown every day after day one. You tend to spend your nights
memorizing sequences and forgetting the previous days unknown. It's part
of the IMAC mindset, i.e., the unknowns are supposed to separate the men from
the boys and if you can't deal with this idea, then don't come to play.
If you get screwed because the judges don't know what they're looking at until
the 5th of 6th flyer gets in front of them, then so be it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In general, IMAC gets things into the Scale
Aerobatics rules because "that's what IAC does". Super. Are we to
introduce unknowns because IMAC does it? Again, what problem are we
trying to solve and how does introducing unknowns solve it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:patterndude@comcast.net
href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">Lance Van Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:27
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Picking 12 manuvers from a book of 20 the night
before the final day is a good way to do it. it could be done in any
class and simply be the final two flights, whether prelims/finals are
employed or not. IMAC introduces unknowns way below their Unlimited
class. Its an expansion of the "box". The only issue I see is
that a change of this magnitude will blow a bunch of people's gaskets.
I see this list today thinks its a good idea (whether it makes pattern more
fun, challenging, differentiating, exciting, specator friendly or what), but
my informal polls show that there is asignificant group that will strongly
oppose this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:rcpattern@comcast.net
href="mailto:rcpattern@comcast.net">Archie Stafford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 4:46
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [SPAM] Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I love the idea
of an unknown. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think it
would add to the challenge and also make it more fun. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In years past where when the same
schedule is flown after 3 years certain guys have a decided advantage over
guys who have just moved up from Advanced due to the extra years of flying
the sequence. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This year it
doesn’t make any difference with a new pattern. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think the “unknown” for the
finals would level the playing field in years when the sequence has been
flown the previous year. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Even
if Masters is not a warm up class for FAI, it should still be by far the
toughest of the AMA patterns. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don’t think you
need to change the other classes accordingly, because Masters is a
destination class. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If you
never move up to FAI, it should be a goal and an honor to be able to fly
on Thursday at the NATS. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It
should be something that you can strive for in the lower classes even if
you have no intentions of ever flying FAI.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Arch<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:10
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [SPAM] Re: AMA MASTER'S
unknown?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Similar to what
Eric H wrote in his last column, would Masters pilots entertain the idea
of Semi-Final round on the last day of Prelims at the Nats? Every one
would fly the Semi-Final schedule during the last day of prelims. Then the
same schedule could be flown in a Finals format, or even alternate between
the picked sequence and the current Prelim schedule in Finals.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The schedule
sequence could be picked by the CD or his representative from a list of
25-30 maneuvers as Troy N. suggests, and be given out at the Pilots
meeting Sunday evening. It's sure to liven things up a bit Wed.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What do Masters
pilots think?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MattK</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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