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Worthy perceptions, John. Thanks!
<BR>G.
<P>John Pavlick wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <STYLE></STYLE>
<SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Yeah,
I agree. It's harder than it looks but it teaches the basics of all the
higher level maneuvers without overwhelming a newbie. It is too short.
The biggest problem I had last year (other than flying a 40 size plane
and learning how to handle crosswind) is that there is no "practice" time
available. I know it's probably unnecessary for the higher classes and
definitely impractical due to time constraints, but maybe for Sportsman
what would be cool is to fly two sequences per round (one take off and
landing) and maybe just keep the score for the best one. This could be
the CD's option - no rule changes needed because it's already addressed
in the current rules (sort of). It might help a lot of guys improve a lot
quicker - I know it would have helped me. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>As
far as the maneuvers go - the hardest ones are the stall turn, 2 loops
and the 2 point roll. If you want to make it "harder" encourage guys to
use top rudder in the 2 point roll and even the full roll (slow it down).
Although not necessary (unlike elevator control in the 3 roll sequence),
it is a skill builder (or airplane destroyer) and it will add interest
for someone who has mastered the basics. The 2 loops are good because if
there's crosswind, you'll learn how to deal with it there. The stall turn
has enough elements to make it challenging. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>The
problems with the Humpty with 1/2 roll up (or anything with 1/2 roll up)
are: </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>1.
A slightly underpowered plane (i.e. entry level Sportsman) will have problems
making it to the top so the pull will be messy and screw up the down line
(believe me).</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>2.
An improperly trimmed airplane that's dragging a wing (aileron diff.) will
screw up the up line.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>The
non rolling triangle loop might work, and it's good because of the long
inverted section at the top of the box (i.e. learn some rudder technique)
BUT an underpowered plane may have problems turning the first corner at
the top forcing an inverted line correction.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>
I'm working with a few people now who will be flying Sportsman this season
if all goes well. The first thing I had them do was fly to the ends of
the box and do 1/2 cuban turn arounds. I told them to practice this until
they could hold a straight and level flight path between. THAT was harder
than it looks for some of them, especially when there was a crosswind. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Maybe
you guys don't realize just how skilled you are (Advanced, Masters, FAI).
Please take it easy on us! It takes a while to build the skills necessary
to achieve that level of competency. I just transitioned from Sportsman
to Intermediate and it felt about right. It's quite a bit harder, but not
overwhelming. I'll struggle for a while, but I'll catch up eventually.
Just in time to get pushed into Advanced...</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005>
<P><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>John Pavlick</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1><A HREF="http://www.idseng.com/" target="_blank">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1> </FONT></FONT></FONT>
<BR></SPAN><SPAN class=160030818-08012005></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1> </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=160030818-08012005><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org
[<A HREF="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith Black</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 07,
2005 12:59 AM</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Subject:</B> Re: adding interest
and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and</FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Being
not too far removed from Sportsman myself I have to agree that the sportsman
pattern is about right in difficulty, just a little short unless it's flown
twice. Without flying it twice the sportsman guys really get the short
end of the stick. If you make it any more difficult then it will be too
hard for the newbie. Even with the current sportsman pattern when I began
I sometimes REALLY needed the box exits, especially after the two loops.
And as far as two rolls go, that's WAY too difficult for sportsman. That
maneuver scared the bejeepers out of for the longest time in Intermediate
(especially when I lost track of my rolls, with the sun in my face, over
the trees in Temple!).</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>One
good thing about the current sportsman pattern is it's easier to get new
guys to consider trying the pattern when they see how "simple" it is. Of
course, they quickly find out that even though the maneuvers are simple
it's not at all easy for the uninitiated pattern flyer to keep the plane
on track through the maneuvers. Then they ALL say the same thing... "WOW!
That's harder than it looks!".</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
think the Sportsman pattern is about right, just a little short.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Keith
Black</FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A HREF="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com" title="d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A HREF="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org" title="discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: adding interest and complexity
to Sportsman ... again and again and</DIV>
<SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Hey
George,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>When
the wind blows, even a little bit, the present Sportsman schedule overtaxes
both the concentration and skill of the entry level pilot.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>A
certain amount of this is good, 'cause all real learning is painful, but
this is a trap that the event has fallen into at least four times in my
recollection.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>We
keep changing schedules to maintain interest, and that's good.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>When
we revise the schedules, we keep adding interest: that sounds good, but
what we really almost always ended up doing was adding a tiny bit of complexity
until ...</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>We
have to add a new class to the all-important bottom of the pyramid.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Want
to know how many times it's happened? Once it was called Novice, then we
called it Pre-Novice, then the schedules all changed,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>and
we called it Novice again, then we changed the name to Sportsman, and added
Turnaround.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
like the schedule Don proposes, but I'd rather have the Sportsmen fly two
short schedules with a "holy cow!, let me get back from the next county."
break between the schedules.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Some
Sportsmen go without a breath for a whole schedule. Okay that's a slight
exageration.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
have used the out-of-box time between those two schedules to coach, calm,
and teach the incoming pilots. It's terribly useful.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Oh
yes, 3 rolls is infinitely more useful for teaching "elevator timing" than
2. You can fake it for 2, but the 3rd one requires that the plane
be under control after 2.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Hey
Ron van Putte ... you out there?</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Tell
the man about the time the Earth shook in Lake Charles!</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005></SPAN><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1>Regards,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Dean
Pappas</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org
[<A HREF="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]<B>On Behalf Of </B>George Kennie</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 06,
2005 2:37 PM</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM]
Re: [SPAM] Re: Annex proposal - development</FONT></FONT></DIV>
I too find Don Ramsey's sequence very stimulating.
<BR>Reminds me that I have always felt that the poor guys in Sportsman
sometimes appear to be getting the short end of the stick regarding the
schedule.Many contests that I have attended have them flying the sequence
twice because the routine is so very short. I would like to see their schedule
slightly modified to give them a little longer sequence and a little additional
stimulation.
<BR>I would propose something like the following.
<P>1.T.O.
U
<BR>2.Free Pass.
D
<BR>3.Straight Flight Out.
C
U
<BR>4.Procedure Turn.
T
<BR>5.Straight Flight Back.
C
D
<BR>6.1/2 Reverse Cuban Eight
T
<BR>7.Immelman Turn.
C
U
<BR>8.Split S.
T
<BR>9.2 Loops.
C
U
<BR>10.Exit The Box.
U
<BR>11.Enter The Box.
D
<BR>12.Non-Rolling Triangular Loop
C
U
<BR>13.Humpty Bump 1/2 roll up
T
<BR>14.One 2-Point Roll
C
D
<BR>15.1/2 Cuban Eight.
T
<BR>16.Non-Rolling Cobra.
C
U
<BR>17.Stall Turn.
T
<BR>18.2 Rolls.
C
D
<BR>19.Exit The Box.
<BR>20.Landing.
C
U
<P>C= Center,T=Turnaround, U= Upwind, D=Downwind.
<P>My rationale is that this is the point that we need to encourage this
<BR>class of fliers to work on their down elevator timing by introducing
<BR>2 rolls.This shouldn't be too much for them to handle as they are
<BR>currently doing a 2 point roll. Also the 2 loops will sharpen their
<BR>precision by making them work harder at presentation placement.
<BR>The Procedure Turn will teach them something that will be required,
<BR>and the Humpty should present no major problems as they are already
<BR>doing a 1/2 Reverse Cuban.They should be learning the Stall Turn and
<BR>the Triangular Loop will further strengthen their centering skills.There
are
<BR>seven maneuvers before taking a breather and seven more to complete
<BR>the sequence.
<BR>Now these fellows can fly ONE sequence like the rest of us and the
<BR>time required should be no longer than the time required to fly a double
<BR>schedule.
<P>Sportsman pilots out there, let me know what you think.
<BR>Georgie
<BR>P.S.I wonder if there are any Sportsman guys monitoring this list??
<BR><SPAN class=288221420-06012005><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=-1> </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
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