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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>Hi Verne. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2> I am only 1
vote but you would have my support as many I have tried to get to consider
giving pattern a try were intimidated by the box and keeping a group of
maneuvers in it. Without a coach was to over whelming for them.
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>
del
<BR>
NSRCA - 473</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne Koester</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 7:40
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Terry,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks for the comments. You're dating both of us here.
That set of schedules I proposed was when I was the D4 VP about ten years ago.
The radical concept I had then which would be viewed as even more radical now
would be to have no turnarounds in Sportsman. The idea was to have newbies
come out and do a judged set of maneuvers like loops, cubans, rolls and so on
with box exits on every pass. The whole concept was to get everyday sport
fliers that are doing this stuff anyway to come out and give it a try. The
schedules that followed were built on that first one and introduced turnaround
in phases. Anyway, I was shot down in flames. I think that today, you wouldn't
even see any smoke - it'd just go poof...........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=amad2terry@juno.com href="mailto:amad2terry@juno.com">Terry
Terrenoire</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 5:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I value Vern's commentsbecause several years ago he alone came up with
a VERY good set of schedules for all AMA classes that truely did build on
one another. Sure wish we had adopted the entire program back then. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would love to see Vern on our rules committee. maybe he could come up
with another series for us to consider, but at least leave the avalanche in
the Advance schedule.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry T.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:58:24 -0500 "Verne Koester" <<A
href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">verne@twmi.rr.com</A>> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman">Georgie,<BR>Here's a
novel idea. Leave Intermediate alone and take the snaps out of
<BR>Advanced. A pilot coming out of Intermediate into Advanced already has
to <BR>learn Slow Rolls, 4 Point Rolls, and a longer schedule with more
crosswind <BR>exposure maneuvers which is plenty.<BR><BR>The step from
Advanced to Masters is minimal at best. The step from <BR>Intermediate to
Advanced is monumental. The end result is a bunch of pilots <BR>in
Intermediate that are getting bored with their schedule but still not
<BR>ready for Advanced so they want to add snaps to it. Only problem is
that <BR>someone coming out of Sportsman will likely be scared away if
Intermediate <BR>is made any tougher.<BR><BR>It's no surprise to me that
the number of Masters pilots at any given <BR>contest are far greater than
the classes that precede it. Most of us who are <BR>there came up through
a balanced system of steps. We're all out of whack <BR>right now.
Unfortunately, I seem to be one of only a handful of Masters and
<BR>higher pilots that still remembers how hard it was to learn slow and 4
point <BR>rolls which gets introduced at the Advanced level. Take the
snaps and spins <BR>out of Advanced and introduce them at the Masters
level, put some box exits <BR>back where they need to be, and you'll have
a logical, balanced, and <BR>transitional set of schedules that
takes a pilot from Sportsman to however <BR>high he or she wants to
go.<BR><BR>Verne Koester<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:
"George Kennie" <</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">geobet@gis.net</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman">><BR>To: <</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">discussion@nsrca.org</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman">><BR>Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:28
PM<BR>Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again
and again <BR>and<BR><BR><BR>> <<I'm not flying masters, I'm
flying advanced, the reason is<BR>> Masters is<BR>> more difficult
than I think I can reasonably fly at this time, so<BR>> I'll work my
way up. >><BR>><BR>> I respectfully disagree with your
assessment of schedule difficulty.<BR>> I get the feeling that you
haven't taken the time to sit down and<BR>> really study the current
Master's sequence. I commend your attitude<BR>> of working your way
up!!!IMHO, I find the current Master's much less<BR>> threatening than
the Advanced sequence.<BR>><BR>> Somebody mentioned "going to
contests without practicing", and<BR>> indeed I can remember, back in
the 60's going to a contest myself<BR>> having never performed the
required routine and doing quite well at<BR>> the time.However those
were significantly different times and I<BR>> myself would not desire
to return to the mindset of that period.It<BR>> was called a "Pattern
Contest" and the attendance was probably a<BR>> couple of hundred guys,
but the mindset was more like a current day<BR>> "Fun- Fly". Nobody
really took it all that seriously. Somewhere<BR>> along the line, the
few individuals that did have a more serious<BR>> approach organized
and brought a more serious aspect to the sport<BR>> realizing that the
basis for guys going out and flying a routine<BR>> that was in fact
JUDGED meant that the concept must<BR>> be"COMPETITION". I think
that this is probably the reason you still<BR>> find the most heavily
attended events to be "Fun-Fly's". When it<BR>> gets too serious there
are a lot of guys that start to feel<BR>> threatened regarding their
status within the group structure and<BR>> when the pressure becomes,
in their estimation, greater than feels<BR>> comfortable to them, they
gravitate to a different venue that<BR>> restores the level of comfort
they deem appropriate.<BR>> The same thing seems to happen, in my
judgement, with schedule<BR>> complexity.Some of us realize that
if the schedules become more and<BR>> more complex, at some point the
difficulty factor will become<BR>> significant enough to threaten our
currently hard won achievement<BR>> status, and indeed this is true.The
decision that probably needs to<BR>> be reasoned through is,in light of
this truth, should the pursuit of<BR>> excellence be sacrificed to
satisfy the inadequacies of those of us<BR>> who are clammoring to
maintain their elevation?<BR>> I consider myself a part of this
equation and recognize my own<BR>> inadequacies, however I also
realize that this same pursuit of<BR>> excellence will not be enhanced
by any concession to tilt the<BR>> playing field in my favor. Noone
will be served by that tack. Least<BR>> of all ME! My flying prowess
ranks somewhere between Sportsman and<BR>> Intermediate(my assessment),
and though I find a couple of the FAI<BR>> maneuvers really tough to
execute in a graceful manner, I still feel<BR>> that there is no
maneuver that I could not learn to do and given<BR>> another 50 years
of practice I might even be in a position to<BR>> challenge
Jason.<BR>> It's about STRIVING guys. That's what COMPETITION is! And
it's<BR>> purpose is to determine the most skilled individual, with the
rest<BR>> of us rated in descending order beneath the rating of the
BEST! So,<BR>> as you can see, I'm not in favor of wussing out to make
things<BR>> easier for anybody who finds their position at the
pinnacle<BR>> precarious(and that includes ME).<BR>> Now, all that
being said, I do feel that we may have a void at the<BR>> bottom and
should probably go back again and reconsider a pre-novice<BR>> class
for the guy who has only been involved in the sport for 2<BR>> weeks
and has never practiced flying a straight line.This shouldn't<BR>> take
much additional time as the number of guys showing up to<BR>>
participate in this class will indeed be very few (which begs the<BR>>
question, how far do we have to concede in order to grow the<BR>>
ranks?).<BR>> The Sportsman sequence I proposed a couple of days ago
DOES appear<BR>> to be too difficult for some of the respondants(but
not all) and<BR>> maybe the old Novice schedule should be made
available for anybody<BR>> showing up to try (as a pre-novice event).I
also think that the<BR>> Intermediate should introduce it's participant
to the 45 downline<BR>> snap or at least a center snap on a horizontal
baseline as<BR>> preparation for Advanced.<BR>> Only a bunch of
opinions, guys! Don't mean I'm right!<BR>>
G.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
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