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<DIV><SPAN class=171011805-10012005>Yes-- you can weigh the airplane without the
electrons (uncharged), but the fuel container (battery) must be installed. Not
going to help much.</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf
Of </B>John Pavlick<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:07
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
Participation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=190070020-09012005>Randy + Norm,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=190070020-09012005> I've seen it written as:
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=190070020-09012005><B><FONT face="Times New Roman">"4.3.
Weight and Size. </B></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">No model may
weigh</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=190070020-09012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=190070020-09012005><FONT face="Times New Roman">more than
five (5) kilograms (11 pounds) gross, but</FONT></DIV>
<P align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman">excluding fuel, ready for takeoff.
No model may</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman">have a wingspan or total length
longer than two (2)</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman">meters (78.74 inches).<SPAN
class=190070020-09012005>"</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN class=190070020-09012005>If
you consider a battery as the "fuel" for an electric plane... Just a
thought.</SPAN></FONT></P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=190070020-09012005>
<P>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=190070020-09012005></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN
class=190070020-09012005><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN
class=190070020-09012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN
class=190070020-09012005> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Randy<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:57 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Participation<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT>
<DIV>I think electric are weighted without the pack. At least I have
seen it written on this list that way/</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Randy</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=MKMSG@aol.com href="mailto:MKMSG@aol.com">MKMSG@aol.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:32
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Participation</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/9/05 12:57:21 PM Central Standard Time, <A
href="mailto:Norm500@comcast.net">Norm500@comcast.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000>Just some
thoughts from an electric flyer that hasn't started in <BR>Pattern
yet. I have flown electric power in IMAC, but am <BR>interested in
Pattern because of the 2-meter size limit. My IMAC <BR>plane, a
2-meter Staudacher which weighs just over 13 lbs. RTF, <BR>and is as
large as I want to go. In larger electrics the price <BR>starts
going up exponentially, but 2-meters start looking rather <BR>small
alongside of the now typical IMAC planes.<BR><BR>BTW, my battery pack
weighs just under 3 lbs. so if the rules were <BR>ever changed to allow
electrics to be weighed without the pack, <BR>I'd only be at about 10
lbs. Not too bad for a plane that was <BR>originally built and
flown with a Quadra gas engine.<BR><BR>Anyway, the point of all this is
that you might be able to start <BR>attracting some electric powered
flyers that want to compete <BR>simply because of the 2-meter limit on
size. I know it's not <BR>something that's going to happen
overnight, but changing the rule <BR>about weighing with the battery
installed would surely help. I <BR>also know that some of the top
rung people are already flying <BR>electric pattern, but with state of
the art planes that's hard for <BR>entry level builders to
achieve.<BR><BR>I've been trying to decide on a pattern plane to build
for some <BR>weeks now. I'd like it to be a 2-meter if for no
other reason <BR>than my eyesight isn't very good and the larger planes
are easier <BR>to see. Thinking of building a Typhoon 2K with Mike
Hester's <BR>modifications, but the project looks daunting to someone
who's <BR>never built a wing with tubes, adjustable wing and stabs, etc.
<BR>Also have been considering the Focus II, but figure it will be
<BR>overweight with the batteries.<BR><BR>Oh well, that's my input for
today.<BR><BR>Norm<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Norm: Because most pattern enthusiasts fly glow powered models, there
really hasn't been much discussion or concern regarding how
glow/gas/electric pattern aircraft are weighed. Competition rules
should be as fair as possible when applied across the board to all the
different types of models authorized to compete in a given category.
Rather than weigh electric pattern ships without batteries, it's my
personal view that either 1) the weight limit for pattern should be
eliminated, or 2) weigh all aircraft types -- gas, glow, or electric
-- ready to fly....with fuel or batteries as the case may be. I'm
not pro or con any particular type of power plant. I've used glow
engines for nearly 55 years and currently have two electric pattern ships
on the workbench. Our AMA competition rules are guided and
influenced by international FAI rules and it will be interesting to see
how this issue is handled as more and more modelers move to forms of power
other than glow fuel.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mike Moritko
</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>