<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Yep, sure do.....most impressive thing I seen in a
while. Unbelievable the plane held together.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>T-Bone</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">steven maxwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 8:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Reverse av/RCU poll</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> Does anyone remember Pete Collinson flying 2003 nats finals when he
had trouble starting his engine and only had like 4 minute to get a 7 minute
flight in, all down lines done at full throttle hour glass with snaps center
all at full trottle if a wing should have ever broke it was then, he is still
flying that plane did at the Nats this year if fact, as he lost his primary
plane in midair which was the one that didn't start in 2003.</DIV>
<DIV> Steve Maxwell</DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">David
Lockhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 1/10/2005 8:27:50 PM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Reverse av/RCU poll</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I definitely remember that manuever causing
increased "pucker" factor - how many wings it broke I'm not sure. The
bottom corner in an hourglass (or Figure Z) is not much different than the
bottom corner in a pyramid loop...............hmmmm.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wgalligan@goodsonacura.com
href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">Wayne Galligan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 4:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Reverse av/RCU
poll</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don't forget the hourglass maneuver...
wasn't that a culprit of many a broken wing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne G.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 3:32
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Reverse av/RCU
poll</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bob,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Point taken. And now that it is 2005, that evil avalanche is
a reality. However - I would submit all the sequences have
been capable of breaking planes for more than a few years
now.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A simple Stall turn for example - plane is on the verge of flopping
- pilot goes to half power, flops anyway, pilots gets disoriented, plane
is heading for mother earth like a meteor, a moment of indecision, then
a half roll, plane is accelerating faster still and the engine is
howling like mad, and as the shadow on the ground is getting
bigger by the instant the pilot panics.....YANK on the elevator and POP
goes the wing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Or the simple square loop - pilot gets disoriented with wings level
and rudder corrections on top of loop, pulls corner 3 without reducing
throttle, plane is still crooked, and throttle is never reduced
resulting in a very exciting final corner.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've seen both of the above scenarios - more than once.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think we'd really be happy if the rules legislated planes
that couldn't hurt themselves. Pattern with combat Zagis
anyone?? And don't forget the pattern community is not immune to
individuals that can break an anvil.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>
<DIV>Nat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I respectfully disagree. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Forget about the reverse avalanche for a moment. I find it
unacceptable that it is <EM>possible</EM> for a schedule to be put in
place with a maneuver that breaks current airplanes. And everyone says
"suck it up", "get over it", and we have to build new planes. Which,
by the way, are now worth less since anyone planning to move up to
Masters is not going to want to buy them.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Having to design/build new planes because the old design does not
fly the new schedule very well is one thing, but to have to do it
because the current designs simply won't survive is something else
altogether. Sure, I could fly a Tipo in the Advanced class if I want.
It may not fly the greatest, but it will fly. And it will certainly
challenge me. At least I won't have to carry a shovel in my
flightbox.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sure, in a couple of years, everyone flying Masters will all
have planes that will survive. Natural selection will take care of
that. BUT, will the sport be better off? I don't think so. Some flyers
may be put off by it. But, we only want the best flying Masters,
right!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not saying we should not make the maneuvers less challenging.
Heck, we could make the schedule more challenging -- for the pilots,
not the planes -- without having to put maneuvers in the schedule
that breaks planes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I really wanted to get back into pattern this year. Had planned
on flying my old Finesse. Looks like I might be better off with my old
Cap 21. Then again, maybe not.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob Richards (climbing off my soapbox).</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Nat Penton <natpenton@centurytel.net></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Ok
all you masters fliers, quit complaining and take your medicine.
Your <BR>problems with the reverse avalanche are imaginary. Manuever
schedules have <BR>always been designed to bring about enhancement
of the pilots and the <BR>airframes capabilities.<BR><BR>It is not
difficult to build an airframe that you cannot tear up. The
<BR>wingtube, for its weight, provides the most strength and
rigidity of any <BR>structural component. Why would you cut it off
??<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>