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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2> It's time to
design a new ladder. Want to see one or do one?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Eric.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kvelez@comcast.net href="mailto:kvelez@comcast.net">Ken Velez</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:56
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> <FONT size=3>Vern I totally agree with you
on the fact that the jump from intermediate is a huge one. Most pilots when
they move to intermediate are barely getting into speed with the airplane
instead of been behind it, I know I was, but I don't think that the snap is
any harder than the 3 rolls we used to have in fact I think the snap is
easier. Probably that's why the made it 2 instead of 3 but now they also lost
the immelmann and the snap whish also makes the sequence shorter.
How much more does it has to be simplified and it's bleeding into advance. I
still think that making the snap more simple and also at a higher altitude
following the immelmann and not pointing down in a 45 is a good stepping stone
into advance rather than lowering Advance to close the gap that we created.
Just mi opinion.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ken</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne Koester</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 9:50
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ken,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'm probably going to get blasted for this one, but I
think it is too hard for many of the pilots coming out of Sportsman. I judge
an awful lot of Intermediate pilots through the course of a summer. I see
some that are doing quite well who should be making the move to Advanced. I
see many others that get into all kinds of box trouble trying to fly
turnaround in a crosswind and just as many that merely survive the two rolls
rather than fly it. I've seen instances where a third roll would've meant
carnage. There are few that do the rolls quite well but many more that
don't. I fail to see the logic or safety of adding a snap to pilots at that
stage. I think the class as it stands has plenty of lessons to be learned
and that should be learned. I really believe that Advanced is way too big of
a jump coming out Intermediate and made these same arguments as these
schedules were being developed. Just my opinion but it's based on experience
and what I see. All of this is moot for a couple of years anyhow. It would
be inappropriate for a CB Member to submit proposed schedules, at least I
think it would, so any proposed changes will have to come from you
guys.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kvelez@comcast.net href="mailto:kvelez@comcast.net">Ken Velez</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 6:40
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Hey Vern instead of taking the snap out
of Advance why don't we incorporate back in Intermediate the immelmann to
the top and do a horizontal snap in the center, no 45 down no figures just
a clean straight and level snap at center to finish the sequence.
Introduces the snap into intermediate and isn't too difficult for the
sportsman coming up. Just a thought.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne
Koester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">NSRCA</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2005 6:58
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman">Georgie,<BR>Here's a
novel idea. Leave Intermediate alone and take the snaps out of
<BR>Advanced. A pilot coming out of Intermediate into Advanced already
has to <BR>learn Slow Rolls, 4 Point Rolls, and a longer schedule with
more crosswind <BR>exposure maneuvers which is plenty.<BR><BR>The step
from Advanced to Masters is minimal at best. The step from
<BR>Intermediate to Advanced is monumental. The end result is a bunch of
pilots <BR>in Intermediate that are getting bored with their schedule
but still not <BR>ready for Advanced so they want to add snaps to it.
Only problem is that <BR>someone coming out of Sportsman will likely be
scared away if Intermediate <BR>is made any tougher.<BR><BR>It's no
surprise to me that the number of Masters pilots at any given
<BR>contest are far greater than the classes that precede it. Most of us
who are <BR>there came up through a balanced system of steps. We're all
out of whack <BR>right now. Unfortunately, I seem to be one of only a
handful of Masters and <BR>higher pilots that still remembers how hard
it was to learn slow and 4 point <BR>rolls which gets introduced at the
Advanced level. Take the snaps and spins <BR>out of Advanced and
introduce them at the Masters level, put some box exits <BR>back where
they need to be, and you'll have a logical, balanced, and
<BR>transitional set of schedules that takes a pilot from
Sportsman to however <BR>high he or she wants to go.<BR><BR>Verne
Koester<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "George
Kennie" <</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">geobet@gis.net</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman">><BR>To: <</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">discussion@nsrca.org</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman">><BR>Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:28
PM<BR>Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again
and again <BR>and<BR><BR><BR>> <<I'm not flying masters, I'm
flying advanced, the reason is<BR>> Masters is<BR>> more difficult
than I think I can reasonably fly at this time, so<BR>> I'll work my
way up. >><BR>><BR>> I respectfully disagree with your
assessment of schedule difficulty.<BR>> I get the feeling that you
haven't taken the time to sit down and<BR>> really study the current
Master's sequence. I commend your attitude<BR>> of working your way
up!!!IMHO, I find the current Master's much less<BR>> threatening
than the Advanced sequence.<BR>><BR>> Somebody mentioned "going to
contests without practicing", and<BR>> indeed I can remember, back in
the 60's going to a contest myself<BR>> having never performed the
required routine and doing quite well at<BR>> the time.However those
were significantly different times and I<BR>> myself would not desire
to return to the mindset of that period.It<BR>> was called a "Pattern
Contest" and the attendance was probably a<BR>> couple of hundred
guys, but the mindset was more like a current day<BR>> "Fun- Fly".
Nobody really took it all that seriously. Somewhere<BR>> along the
line, the few individuals that did have a more serious<BR>> approach
organized and brought a more serious aspect to the sport<BR>>
realizing that the basis for guys going out and flying a routine<BR>>
that was in fact JUDGED meant that the concept must<BR>>
be"COMPETITION". I think that this is probably the reason you
still<BR>> find the most heavily attended events to be "Fun-Fly's".
When it<BR>> gets too serious there are a lot of guys that start to
feel<BR>> threatened regarding their status within the group
structure and<BR>> when the pressure becomes, in their estimation,
greater than feels<BR>> comfortable to them, they gravitate to a
different venue that<BR>> restores the level of comfort they deem
appropriate.<BR>> The same thing seems to happen, in my judgement,
with schedule<BR>> complexity.Some of us realize that if the
schedules become more and<BR>> more complex, at some point the
difficulty factor will become<BR>> significant enough to threaten our
currently hard won achievement<BR>> status, and indeed this is
true.The decision that probably needs to<BR>> be reasoned through
is,in light of this truth, should the pursuit of<BR>> excellence be
sacrificed to satisfy the inadequacies of those of us<BR>> who are
clammoring to maintain their elevation?<BR>> I consider myself a part
of this equation and recognize my own<BR>> inadequacies, however
I also realize that this same pursuit of<BR>> excellence will
not be enhanced by any concession to tilt the<BR>> playing field in
my favor. Noone will be served by that tack. Least<BR>> of all ME! My
flying prowess ranks somewhere between Sportsman and<BR>>
Intermediate(my assessment), and though I find a couple of the
FAI<BR>> maneuvers really tough to execute in a graceful manner, I
still feel<BR>> that there is no maneuver that I could not learn to
do and given<BR>> another 50 years of practice I might even be in a
position to<BR>> challenge Jason.<BR>> It's about STRIVING guys.
That's what COMPETITION is! And it's<BR>> purpose is to determine the
most skilled individual, with the rest<BR>> of us rated in descending
order beneath the rating of the BEST! So,<BR>> as you can see, I'm
not in favor of wussing out to make things<BR>> easier for anybody
who finds their position at the pinnacle<BR>> precarious(and that
includes ME).<BR>> Now, all that being said, I do feel that we may
have a void at the<BR>> bottom and should probably go back again and
reconsider a pre-novice<BR>> class for the guy who has only been
involved in the sport for 2<BR>> weeks and has never practiced flying
a straight line.This shouldn't<BR>> take much additional time as the
number of guys showing up to<BR>> participate in this class will
indeed be very few (which begs the<BR>> question, how far do we have
to concede in order to grow the<BR>> ranks?).<BR>> The Sportsman
sequence I proposed a couple of days ago DOES appear<BR>> to be too
difficult for some of the respondants(but not all) and<BR>> maybe the
old Novice schedule should be made available for anybody<BR>> showing
up to try (as a pre-novice event).I also think that the<BR>>
Intermediate should introduce it's participant to the 45
downline<BR>> snap or at least a center snap on a horizontal baseline
as<BR>> preparation for Advanced.<BR>> Only a bunch of opinions,
guys! Don't mean I'm right!<BR>> G.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
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